Guarantee resources in starting area

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Align
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Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Align » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:21 pm

I love the RSO mod, but the vanilla settings are capable enough at creating large patches of resources widely spread, so what makes RSO really work is how you are guaranteed to have a minimum amount of resources in the starting area, enough to reach trains and such.

So if the Starting Area setting we already have also ensured that every kind of resource is generated in it (overriding the general resource settings), this could be easily accomplished in vanilla. Give it a Richness variable, with None being it not overriding the general settings, and we'd be all set!

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by bobucles » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:06 am

I'll have to agree on this one. The player almost immediately needs all four major resources (water, coal, iron, copper), and they can be separated by fairly large distances. Adding a small patch of each within the starting area would be nice.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Peter34 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:57 am

I've played maybe 15 games of Factorio total, although many only for a few hours before stopping, and in only one of those did I feel like I had gotten a bad starting area in terms of resources. It was the first coop MP game I tried, and there simply wasn't a sufficiently large surface area of Iron Ore available, so we had constant and very frustating shortages.

So my verdict is that vanilla Factorio, as of alpha 11, does a good job of making sure there is sufficient Iron Ore and Coal available in the starting area, and enough Copper Ore and Stone too.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Koub » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 am

Peter34 wrote:I've played maybe 15 games of Factorio total, although many only for a few hours before stopping, and in only one of those did I feel like I had gotten a bad starting area in terms of resources.
The question is : how many times did you restart each game to have a suitable starting area ? I played roughly the same number games as you did, but restarted each between 10 and 30 times to get the starting area I had in mind.
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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Takezu » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:29 am

Well what you have in mind and what an Random system gives you, are almost always two pairs of shoes.
I've startet many maps anew because of this or that, to much of this to less of that, damn islands, to much water and so forth, but all of them would have been playable from the pure view of ressources in the area (even most of the islands).
Tbh pure vanilla i've often more the problem whereto with all that stuff that litters the starting area, than where de heck is my (inseret ressource of choice)

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by boro » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:03 am

Takezu wrote:Well what you have in mind and what an Random system gives you, are almost always two pairs of shoes.
I've startet many maps anew because of this or that, to much of this to less of that, damn islands, to much water and so forth, but all of them would have been playable from the pure view of ressources in the area (even most of the islands).
Tbh pure vanilla i've often more the problem whereto with all that stuff that litters the starting area, than where de heck is my (inseret ressource of choice)
When you play with very low resources (which most players will after a while), it does take an insane amount of tries to get a playable starting area, especially if you want a small starting area. I've clicked regenerate map so many times in the past I now always use the map editor to adjust the starting area. You say all your starting areas are playable, that's because your settings are too easy.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Align » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:14 am

Yeah this isn't nearly so bad with default resource settings, it's when I try to use low frequency/high richness for more train gameplay that it gets painful.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Peter34 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:14 am

Koub wrote:
Peter34 wrote:I've played maybe 15 games of Factorio total, although many only for a few hours before stopping, and in only one of those did I feel like I had gotten a bad starting area in terms of resources.
The question is : how many times did you restart each game to have a suitable starting area ? I played roughly the same number games as you did, but restarted each between 10 and 30 times to get the starting area I had in mind.
I practically never opt for "regenerate map" because I'm unhappy with the available Iron/Copper/Coal/Stone.

I do "regenerate map" a lot because I'm unhappy with other things, mainly if there's too much water in my starting area, or too many trees, or if I'm not in Desert which is my favourite terrain type both because of an inclination to not have trees all over the place and because I find the contrast between the terrain and my stuff comfortable.

So I stand by what I wrote earlier: I am perfectly happy with the resource amounts given by the random map generator. Other stunts it pulls, such as starting me in the middle of a lake unable to move, are indeed deplorable, or generating an area with far too much water, or far too many trees, and the general absence of an option for me to choose what kind of terrain I'd like to start in ("Desert, please!"), are very annoying, but that doesn't have anything to do with insufficient starting resources.

For the record, I always play with defalt starting mineral resources, as it's my understanding that if I try to tweak them to make them more faovurable, the game will just screw me over anyway.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by boro » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:06 pm

Yeah I'm pretty sure there is not often a resource problem on default or easier settings.
But you do need some amount of iron, copper, stone and preferrably coal before you are capable of taking out spawners, you can't do it with a pistol and no armor. Right now there is no guarantee you get all of them at all, especially on the smallest starting area setting. You'll get like 0, 1 or 2 of the 4 needed resources. It's almost impossible to generate a really challenging map with the random generator as it is now. Either it's too easy (from the hardcore player's point of view) or downright unplayable.

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Re: Guarantee resources in starting area

Post by Takezu » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:52 pm

boro wrote:
Takezu wrote:Well what you have in mind and what an Random system gives you, are almost always two pairs of shoes.
I've startet many maps anew because of this or that, to much of this to less of that, damn islands, to much water and so forth, but all of them would have been playable from the pure view of ressources in the area (even most of the islands).
Tbh pure vanilla i've often more the problem whereto with all that stuff that litters the starting area, than where de heck is my (inseret ressource of choice)
When you play with very low resources (which most players will after a while), it does take an insane amount of tries to get a playable starting area, especially if you want a small starting area. I've clicked regenerate map so many times in the past I now always use the map editor to adjust the starting area. You say all your starting areas are playable, that's because your settings are too easy.
Well i can't say fore sure. I'Ve stopped using the generator after my 10th map.
Swiched over to RSO, which has a pretty solid generation. Only thing that can get you there is a bit trolly RNG but i'd say it's never to bad.

On the other hand wouldn'T hurt to set a minimum Value for the starting area, but the it goes, you will have the ones that are grumble
It's to many, and the others that are crying for more.

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