Connection of circuit network over distances.

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ssilk
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Connection of circuit network over distances.

Post by ssilk » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:27 pm

This is a continuation of https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=984
This is in my opinion also needed for the new combinators, see https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 0&start=30

For longer distances/bigger networks it should be possible to have a "wireless connection".

A device where you can plug in red/green wires. Then you need to choose a "channel". All wireless connection devices connected to this channel will share the same red/green network.

An special use could be, that also the information of a logistic network can be shared. See also https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=8905 Overlapping Logistic Network II

--> The sense of this is, that it is the bridge between the wire- and the wireless network.

It could also be used for routing: Connect red network on left side to green network on right. Connect green network on left to logistik network on right. Why not?

Example, the logistic network (logistic, not circuit) could send per default on wireless-channel "L". Then I have to place only one station, connect to channel "L" and voilla: I can set an inserter, which is connected to the logistics-network. So with this device you create also the logic bridge between the circuit and logistic network.

( I introduced "channel", they are just channels, like on a cable with many strings in it. we already talked about it here:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... nnel#p6240
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... nnel#p6865
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Re: Connection of circuit network over distances.

Post by ratchetfreak » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:44 am

I think the logistics channel should be read-only. This way you are always guaranteed to have the number of items in the storage+providers from that "L" channel. If you need to send data just create a new channel.

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Re: Connection of circuit network over distances.

Post by DanGio » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:53 am

Hello !
I like that idea. I thought of something. Perhaps it was so obvious in your mind that you didn't mention it... But I think this "channel" idea for wireless transmission would be fulfilled with the implementation of radio waves in Factorio.

How it works in game :
We get to discover 1 new tech, unlocked by Advanced Electronics, which unlocks 1 or 2 new devices :
- the radio transmitter can broadcast or receive a circuit or logistic network information on various frequencies (let's say from 30 kHz to 300 MHz). It has to be physically wired with a colored cable or placed in the range of a roboport. The signal type (red/green/logistic) is lost in the process, and will be re-assigned by another transmitter in "receiving" mode, which works exactly the same way in reverse. The signal type is discarded while being broadcasted because its new identifier is its frequency. So you can do this : red signal > broadcast > logistic signal if you want. Optionally, range would be implemented : the higher the frequency is, the lower the range of the signal is (if so, a proper way to see the signal range on the map would be great), so you can adapt the choice of the frequency to the size of your network... or use this device :
- the radio relay, when set to a frequency, takes all signals on that frequency it can get (and also close ones ? I think so :)) and resend them. Only useful if radio waves range is a thing.

So, I think these items respond to the need of wireless signals you mentionned. Very large choice of frequencies = very large number of networks. They would fit perfectly in a Factorio game, doing screechy sounds when you approach... Also, I feel radio waves could be fun in multiplayer, coop or pvp, or even affect the biters... But now I shall thank you for reading my awful english by stopping this post... here.

[EDIT : I may be totally missing the point here... didn't talk about logistic network, and also, I just noticed the links in the end of your post... I'll read tomorrow, and re-edit]
[EDIT 2 : Hey ! A fellow musician ! :)]
[EDIT 3 : Ok, I think it's fine... Radio transmitters can broadcast logistic signal when placed into a logistic network (edited), and my radio waves story could be the "wireless version" of your cable channels idea. I think it makes sense to get more channels in wireless mode because you don't physically control the cabling. So radio frequencies could be fine, and very fun, when 2 frequencies close to each other are screwing each other up.]

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Re: Connection of circuit network over distances.

Post by Demongornot » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:10 pm

Hello.
I know that the post is 2 years old, sorry for the resurrection, but I was about to post a suggestion about wireless circuit network anyway.

My additional idea is about "channels" as in real life, several wireless can operate from the same antenna without interfering, because they use different channels/frequencies.
I think it would be great if we could have the possibility to send data not only wirelessly, but also being able to have channels.
It would allow for way more complex and compact build and factory while still allowing identical items on the same channel to add together.

Because if we want to transmit through a giant factory informations about how many of xxx object are left for xxxA assembler but xxxB and xxxC also need to send this information to fire inserters, if we require signals for each assembler to send individually their own amount of xxx resource needed, it will require at least two parallel power lines, or 3 if we can only use a single wire colour...
And doing it wirelessly not only solve the problem of spaghetti wire that become quickly impossible to read, but also don't require anymore to connect them through a long process of constantly trying to avoid crossing them and connecting a lot of wire from point A to point B, just setting a channel (with number or name tag) but we still keep the ability to lets identical resources on the same channel add together.
As long as there is a chain of antenna all in range, as does the logistic network, we can connect anywhere an antenna and lets the green and red input and output be independently set to a channel through the antenna or an new item which would decode the wireless network into channel, a "router".

The channel idea could also be done without wireless network, what about optical fibre ? Which could be underground or replace both red and green slot (as being unidirectional) on a powerline and act the same as wire, but allowing for channels, but probably require to be connected to the "router" which allow to choose a channel.

It don't really make things more easy, because rather than avoiding to cross wires or use tricks to make them independent, we now have to handle channels, it could be nice for the endgame.
I don't know how is the source code of Factorio, but depending how you handle network it can be as simple as adding a simple array of integers and a "if".

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Re: Connection of circuit network over distances.

Post by PacifyerGrey » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:53 am

I have been thinking about multichannel transmission recently as well.

I think that having sort of a multiplexor which would allow multichannel transmission (like VLAN trunking in network switches) would be great. For megabases different outposts might need to communicate with each other regarding resource needs and the resource might be the same in many cases. And you can mostly have only 2 wires (so 2 channels) total for inter-outpost communications.

Sure thing there are ways to handle it as it is. But introducing circuit network wireless connector (radio transmitter) with a set of frequencies is a perfect solution for this.
Generally speaking you can introduce an entity which will connect two of its circuit connectors to a certain frequency. All entities sharing the same frequency are considered the same circuit network.

This would be such an awesome QoL thing!

You can opt to give names to channels. Or make a dropdown of a fixed number of frequencies. Or make it an integer input. Or even make this channel number be configurable from a circuit network (one connector sets channel number for 2nd connector). So many possibilities!

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Radio Signal Tower

Post by FrodoOf9Fingers » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:09 pm

TL;DR
Create an entity that can send signals across the map without wires.

What ?
Create a Radio Signal Tower entity that can transmit the values of one circuit network to another Radio Signal Tower, effectively joining two circuit networks together.
Why ?
Only two points here: It reduces the setup time for circuit controlled outposts (like mines, gun turret positions, etc...), or reduces the need to try and keep wires separate transmitting signals to a control center of sorts. I believe it might also help performance in the game, reducing the number of wires in the save files.

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Re: Radio Signal Tower

Post by d3x0r » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:31 pm

There's a mod for that! :) Skandragon's Radio Telemetry
Adds radio equipment that can transmit circuit network signals over long distances. All signal types are supported

I wonder if it itself can use a signal to set frequency... so you can have multiple networks of signals joined appropriately... ( hmm I guess not "There is currently no support for channels. If this is desired, where multiple receivers can transmit the same signal types without interference, let me know as an issue here." )


I'm amazed at how many of these suggestions can be solved by doing a quick search on mods.factorio.com :)

or Wireless Signals

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Re: Radio Signal Tower

Post by Tekky » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:00 pm

This has already been suggested in the following threads:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47429 global circuit network
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49317 Radio Links for signals transmission

These threads also contain links to additional threads where it has been suggested before.

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Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by Koziołek » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:06 am

TL;DR
Let's introduce signal transmitter/emitter for logical network that works similar to beacons - emit signal for logical network for long reach and science track for this elements.

What ?
I would like to suggest to introduce few new types of buildings that could be part of Logic Network (LN):

Logic Network Signal Transmitter (LNST) - this building broadcast signal (like beacon) that could be received by LNA. LNST take a signal from other elements of LN via common wires. Range of signal should be significant longer range of 3-4 wires/poles. Signal could be marked by channel to create many wireless networks that not interfere each other.
Logic Network Antenna (LNA) - receive signal from LNST on specific channel and send them via wire to other LN elements.
Logic Network Signal Repeater/Amplifier (LNSR/a) - receive and broadcast signal from LNST, could not be attached to LN elements, ignores channel (repeat all). Just works like amplifier or common Wifi Repeater (in real world).

All of this elements needs to be discover in extra science track that could contains:
- one research do discover elements e.g. Wireless Logic Network
- 6lvl research to increase range.
- one research to discover channels, before that we have only one channel.
- 4lvl research to increase number of channels.
Why ?
Logical network based on wires. This makes building networks hard specially if we would like to build extensive network where state of one element have to be applied on element far away. Combination of LNST, LNA and LNSR/A gives us possibility to build very extensive LN that has low density of active elements (elements that emit or read signal in LN) without using poles and wires.
Networks use different channels like different colors of wires.

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Re: Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by Koub » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:40 pm

Similar things have been suggested quite a number of times.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51628
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by AngledLuffa » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:50 pm

Koub wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:40 pm
Similar things have been suggested quite a number of times.
What's the result of things that have been suggested several times? Is there some way to keep track of which suggestions are possible and which are not likely to ever happen?

This one in particular would be very neat in terms of customizing behavior in large late game factories, especially if there are a lot of channels for communicating across the map.

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Re: Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by Tekky » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:01 am

Here is a more comprehensive list of threads in which this has been suggested:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49317 Radio Links for signals transmission
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47429 global circuit network
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51628 Radio Signal Tower
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51811 "Pipboy" for wireless network/circuit manipulation
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62384 Logistic circuit signals through radars

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Re: Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by Koub » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:23 am

AngledLuffa wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:50 pm
Koub wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:40 pm
Similar things have been suggested quite a number of times.
What's the result of things that have been suggested several times? Is there some way to keep track of which suggestions are possible and which are not likely to ever happen?
The result, if there are still suggestions, usually is that there is no result :).
There are just too many suggestions for me to be able to keep track of them, even if I read them all. Once upon a time, SSilk kept updated link collections by theme, but for the life of me, I can't. I have a job that takes 45-50 weekly hours of my time, I can't invest another 40 hours a week on the forum. Plus, my experience tells me that most (not all but really most) people just ignore whatever has been contributed in the past, and just post their idea. They don't care searching - or if they do, they don't try so hard. So the least I can do is try and remember all the suggestion I have seen, and either merge the topics into a unique thread to keep track of the idea's history, or mention the other topics when I feel it's more appropriate - or if I don't really understand the suggestion :)).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Post by Tekky » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm

I think he is more interested in the chance of suggestions being implemented by the Factorio developers.

In my experience, most of the Factorio developers are reluctant to comment on individual suggestions, mainly because they don't want to make promises that they may not be able to keep.

However, many of the Factorio developers do read the "Ideas and Suggestions" sub-forum (but are more active in the "News" sub-forum). And a significant number of suggestions do actually get implemented in one way or another. Just take a look at the size of the "Implemented Suggestions" sub-forum to see how many suggestions have been implemented.

However, it can take several years for suggestions to get implemented. And most suggestions will not ever get implemented, because it would be impossible to implement them all.

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Long range signal sender/reciver aka signal via radio

Post by sathill » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:56 am

Hi
This topic its about signals that are used in combinators. For now only method to send signal are over green/red wire. Connecting big power poles are a lot to do and not hard or complicated because there can be multiple lines. It will be cool if there will be somekind of sender tower and radio reciver because outposts are a thing.
If there mod like this for 0.17 point me because i need to have it like now.
Thanks

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Re: Long range signal sender/reciver aka signal via radio

Post by leadraven » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 am

While looking like radio, technically It can be implemented as underground connection of both red and green wires.

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Re: Long range signal sender/reciver aka signal via radio

Post by GrumpyJoe » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:54 am

not saying its a bad idea, but are you aware of red/green wires are for free , if implemented in a blueprint?

just connect 2 big poles with both wires and use that BP in your power line to the outpost.

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Re: Long range signal sender/reciver aka signal via radio

Post by sathill » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:36 pm

GrumpyJoe wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:54 am
not saying its a bad idea, but are you aware of red/green wires are for free , if implemented in a blueprint?

just connect 2 big poles with both wires and use that BP in your power line to the outpost.
Lol o wrote long post and my mobile chrome bugs out.

So short version.
Yes im aware about blueprint free wires. Its workaround of somekind.

My point its local wiring its spot-on. But not every outpost its connected to main grind because of fun reasons. Distant wiring its lacking. Controlling trains via signals its great because disabling train stations have some limitations.

Plus our hero can create radars, rockets, nuclear reactors etc. But there is no radio.
Note to all moders: radio mod will have great number of users im sure about this.

Maybe something like roboport but instead or square influence a long range cone of influence?

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Re: Long range signal sender/reciver aka signal via radio

Post by Tekky » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:50 pm

EDIT: Meanwhile, the threads have been merged. Therefore, with "OP" I am referring to the original poster of the thread before it got merged.

OP's suggestion has already been suggested in the following threads:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49317 Radio Links for signals transmission
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47429 global circuit network
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51628 Radio Signal Tower
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51811 "Pipboy" for wireless network/circuit manipulation
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62384 Logistic circuit signals through radars
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63075 Logic network signal transmitter/emitter

Since I started one of these suggestion threads, I am obviously in favor of the suggestion.

I am sure that at least one of these threads contains a link to a mod. However, I'm not sure if they have been updated for version 0.17.
Last edited by Tekky on Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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