Bridges

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ssilk
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Bridges

Post by ssilk » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:47 pm

this is not really a suggestion, it's more a concept-study. :) I think bridges could be the first step to implement a third dimension into factorio.

- Bridges are streets (see https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=1094 ) "above" the ground. The bridge is nothing else than a ground at another level. Or a second map above the first.
- Pieces of bridge are expensive.
- you can built only rails and belts on it. (this differs a bit from the suggestion for streets) - eventually better: maybe this is also a special tile "bridge" instead of "street".
- With "one level up" it is meant, that you may not be able to built it over anything which is higher than one level.
- You see the level, if you are on the same level.
- This means, you need a "ramp" to come to this level.
Ramps are very expensive and need a lot of material and can be built in different steepness (see down). So they work also as pillars.
- Ramps can have different steepness. Max steepness for pillar, foot, car and rails.
- From the level below you see a transparent outline-image of the level up. Edit is only possible on the same level. So you first need to built the ramp, then the bridge.
- From the level above then level below is seen but in a form that it is clear, that it is below and cannot be edited.
- Bridges can be about 30 tiles long from one ramp straight forward. You can built from both sides over about 60 tiles, which should be enough for most cases. You can built pillars inbetween if not. (You can built a pillar in the water?)
- Bridges can go over water, but also over anything else which is lower (assemblies, belts, etc.)
- So you can use them to walk over your factory.
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Re: Bridges

Post by Dr.Eddy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:54 pm

I don't see any reason why should bridges be so expensive. Making pathways above ground is construction-wise quite cheap and simple. And for bridges above water - you just need pillars, otherwise it's simple as well. Unless you want trains to go over it. But still, just look at how stone furnaces, walls, belts and other simple things cheap are. I just don't see any reason, nor strategic importance, why bridges should be expensive.

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Re: Bridges

Post by ssilk » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:34 am

Huh. I mentioned in any way how expensive. In my mind was something like "more expensive than walls and not so expensive like in OTTD". :)

But you gave me a good point: Different bridges for different purposes. It's clear that a ladder over the factory is easier/different than a bridge for a car or locomotive.

And to bring it back to my point: Bridges are on a "level-up-map". Like dungeons are one level down. This means, that the type of ground in this "level up" is changed (in this case before there was there nothing, now there is then a bridge and the ramps are on both maps to keep everything together). This suggestion is, because I myself are currently programming on a hobby-rogue-like-game and bringing in levels (in my case for dungeons :) ) was much, much easier, than thought.

And my intension for all this writing was, to point to the complications from programming-technical sight of view, when introducing bridges. It is complicated to bring them on the same map, because there it must be an item and then you need to be able to drive above it and to build tracks on it etc.. I mean it would be much easier to implement that differently.
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Re: Bridges

Post by Dr.Eddy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:18 am

Actually, I don't see any need to make them "above" the normal level. You could make them at the same level, just render them last, so their sprites would replace anything below. And you'd just mark such covered space as empty, so you can walk over it and build there.

Or it could be done your way, but then the devs could also introduce more levels, so that we have some terrain. Have you ever played dwarf fortress? :) I would love to have some terrain!

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Re: Bridges

Post by ssilk » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:20 pm

I think you don't understand fully. :) The rendering of the bridge is just a problem which will always appear. The problem is how to interact with the rest of the world (=main-map).

Hm, how can I explain that? I want you for look at the factory-idea ( https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=5&t=1016 ). You don't need to read the whole stuff you need only to know, that the factories have a "inside", which is bigger than the "outside". The "inside of a factory" can also be thought as an "own map" and the common problem here is not how to render it (this is of course one problem, but not the most important and the rendering already exists here), the problem is how to interact with the "outside", so that it will be consistent.

And now to get the turn: With bridges this interaction-problem is much easier solvable. You have only two points of interaction (the ramps or pillars I mentioned) and only one type of ground (bridge) on the above map. Much easier to implement, than a whole factory or a leveled landscape...

So, again, bridges are a way to introduce "multi-maps". Solving the fundamental problems, instead of implementing a special case. A first implementation which solves the most serious problems, without bringing the whole game into danger of not working (for alpha-version we can live without bridges when they don't work). And with them the general problems of having multiple "levels" of things going on could be solved.

This solutions can be used to introduce a leveled landscape/"pseudo 3-D" in factorio or to introduce my beloved "factories" :) , or underground dungeons, or the insides of houses, or areas with more or less detail/proportions (to spare memory), or, or...

So as conclusion: Bridges are an easy solvable problem to implement new structures into the code.
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Re: Bridges

Post by Graiver » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:21 pm

I personally crave for bridges/ tunnel in factorio, because of the crappyness of crossroads but I think your idea for game implementation is crap, no offense meant off course :) What you imply is some sort of Gnomoria like
looks for factorio and that just doesn't seem right :| With some thinking I believe it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a balanced and aestheticaly sound idea, but before rationalising it all out some sort of indication that
all of this is a possibility is in order ;)

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Re: Bridges

Post by aRatNamedSammy » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:08 pm

+1 for bridges/catwalk and/or entity for belts over factory, ect....
just my little opinion
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Re: Bridges

Post by ssilk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:30 pm

See also this thread, it includes much more ideas around that: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=14024 Travel over Water: Boats, Ships, Canus / Bridges / Tunnels
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