Mining oil to unlock refinery and chem plant?

[ccw18]

TL;DR

Locking refineries and chem plants behind mining oil is too extreme

What ?

As triggered tech was introduced in https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-376, in 2.0 players will need to mine oils to unlock machines and recipes for basic oil processing. I think triggered tech is a brilliant idea that can prevent players from unlocking too much research that they can't utilise now and be overwhelmed by them later. As mentioned in the FFF link above, this will become more important in the Space Age.



While it is good to stop players from researching too much, the mechanics can potentially become too extreme.



There are several types of 'rewards' that can be locked behind a tech (whether it is a triggered or regular tech):
1-immediate bonus
2-recipes that give u new equipment/modules
3-recipes that give u new intermediates
4-recipes that give u upgraded/more advanced machines, better power source
5-recipes that give u basic machines for a new production chain
-etc.
You may notice that some of them give u direct and immediate benefits while some give u better tools or the necessary tools to progress the game.



Now let's look at some ways we can use triggered/regular tech for different types of unlocks.
Here are some suggestions that I believe are natural/ideal:
1-regular tech to unlock immediate bonuses
2,3,4-regular or triggered tech to unlock more advanced intermediates/better tools. The trigger would be one of the ingredients for the unlocked items
5-regular tech to unlock the basic machines for new resource processing.



The part I want to emphasize is that the machines for the basic processing of a new resource should not be locked behind a triggered tech that asks u to mine the resource. Just like how u can build furnaces and have smelting recipes available before u mine any ore, u should be able to unlock basic oil processing and refineries/chem plants before mining oil.



Therefore, my proposal is that in 2.0, basic oil processing will be unlocked the same way as in 1.1 and lock sulphur and plastic behind petroleum production.

Why ?

So far there are three types of triggers revealed by devs in the links above:
-Mining an entity
-Crafting an item/fluid
-Launching a rocket with a certain item



I would argue that compared to the other two, Mining an entity usually involves more 'waste times' (travel to an outpost, setting up defences, setting up long-distance logistics etc.), if refineries are locked behind mining oil, it will increase the waiting time to set up the basic processing as you cannot craft the machines before u mine oils. To me, this is similar to if furnaces are locked behind mining ores, which is a bit weird and annoying. I would also expect that in SA the "waste time" will be more significant as there will be interplanetary travel and more expensive logistic costs. Imagine that u spend 1hours to get to a new planet and set up some basic mining, then unlock a triggered tech that tells you that you should go back and come again (well u may also use local resources to make) with the newly unlocked machines to process those ores u mined, and before that, there are no other uses for the new ores.



This also applies to any items that have very little use other than being processed further in new machines. It is okay to lock recipes because u can build the machines early and quickly set recipes one unlocked, but it is more of an issue to lock machines because it takes more time to make and place the machines.

[Illiander42]

Seconding.

Lock the recipies behind mining, not the buildings.

Because not letting us pre-buffer chem plants is going to be painful.

[morsk]

Therefore, my proposal is that in 2.0, basic oil processing will be unlocked the same way as in 1.1 and lock sulphur and plastic behind petroleum production.

This is the actual TL;DR.

I don't want this suggestion. I believe locking oil recipes is only moderately annoying, and is justified by introducing us to a mechanic used on other planets, and by decluttering the tech tree. You spent a lot of time saying this isn't like copper & iron for abstract reasons. I don't care if it isn't like copper & iron, and your abstract reasons are probably wrong as they don't consider other planets.

I can just craft a pumpjack and put it over an oil node when exploring, or clearing biters. This can become a normal part of the game. It is harmless.

[FuryoftheStars]

Therefore, my proposal is that in 2.0, basic oil processing will be unlocked the same way as in 1.1 and lock sulphur and plastic behind petroleum production.

Either this or a "discovery" trigger, but that might be worse (UPS wise) to do. I don't much care for the idea of all the infrastructure for something being locked behind mining it.

Supposedly it's more immersive, but frankly I fins it immersion breaking to be able to craft an advanced apparatus (pumpjack) for the mining of a resource that you have not seen while you can't craft the buildings to at least handle the basics of that resource.

Edit: Allowing hand mining of oil somehow could be another viable alternative.