Game Design: Make Hazard Concrete just a "Rotation" or "Shift-Scrollwheel" of regular Concrete.

[Deadlock989]

Some bugs with blueprints, it has 4 rotations for 3 tiles.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/MultiConcrete

Classic. Instant example of what a broken and pointless idea this is.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/MultiConc ... 000b30cc9d

Can anyone tell me - is it 9 button presses / scroll wheel notches to get from pink concrete to left-slanting hazard concrete, or was it 9 presses / notches to get from right-slanting hazard concrete to turquoise concrete, I always get those two mixed up?

[GregoriusT]

Some bugs with blueprints, it has 4 rotations for 3 tiles.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/MultiConcrete

Classic. Instant example of what a broken and pointless idea this is.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/MultiConc ... 000b30cc9d

Can anyone tell me - is it 9 button presses / scroll wheel notches to get from pink concrete to left-slanting hazard concrete, or was it 9 presses / notches to get from right-slanting hazard concrete to turquoise concrete, I always get those two mixed up?

Maybe you should actually read the discussion if you want to contribute to it, because you clearly did not do that.

[Deadlock989]

Maybe you should actually read the discussion if you want to contribute to it, because you clearly did not do that.

Wrong again, I've read it, ate the popcorn.

[GregoriusT]

Maybe you should actually read the discussion if you want to contribute to it, because you clearly did not do that.

Wrong again, I've read it, ate the popcorn.

Proof that you did not read it:

- Let each Placer Item in your Hotbar save the Design that got last selected, so you can have multiple Concrete Designs on your Hotbar. (No crafting of Designs needed at all whatsoever if it is like this!)

[Deadlock989]

I mean, I hate nearly everything about these ideas. Even if you temporarily ignore the massive issues and workload it would create for the devs and roleplay that you could just snap your fingers and make it happen because it's oh so trivial apparently, it would mostly be horrible and confusing as hell.

The least horrible parts, like having hazard concrete return regular concrete when mined, instant-crafted hazard concrete recipe or whatever, are moddable right now. If it's your preference to have that, you can have it. Just don't inflict your personal preferences on literally 2 million other people or pretend you know what's better for other people, because it's arrogance and not a good look.

[GregoriusT]

Then actually provide arguments why it is horrible and confusing as hell instead of just hating on it for no reason at all. Just hating on something because it is different is one of the most arrogant things you can do, because that is also inflicting your beliefs to over 2 million people, but with the huge difference that you don't have any logic to back it up. So please actually provide arguments that are not off-topic or already fixed, if you want to actually contribute.

[Deadlock989]

Then actually provide arguments why it is horrible and confusing as hell instead of just hating on it for no reason at all.

Try reading the thread because you clearly haven't.

[GregoriusT]

Then actually provide arguments why it is horrible and confusing as hell instead of just hating on it for no reason at all.

Try reading the thread because you clearly haven't.

Again I have read your Stuff and you always bashed on things that were already fixed in the discussion.

[Deadlock989]

Again I have read your Stuff and you always bashed on things that were already fixed in the discussion.

OK mate. Have a nice game.

[picklock]

I also don't like this idea.
I have no problem handling with concrete and hazard concrete. And evan if I replace the hazard concrete and there ist no fürther use for it at the moment, so what? I don't care. I store it and use it again if I need it. And most of the time I let use it by constraction robots, so I do not have it in my players inventory.
In my opinion there are many other things that the devs schould change or polish since release.

[GregoriusT]

I also don't like this idea.
I have no problem handling with concrete and hazard concrete. And evan if I replace the hazard concrete and there ist no fürther use for it at the moment, so what? I don't care. I store it and use it again if I need it. And most of the time I let use it by constraction robots, so I do not have it in my players inventory.
In my opinion there are many other things that the devs schould change or polish since release.

If you don't have issues now, then you wont have Issues if this would be implemented either.
You can have: take Concrete, select the Design of Hazard Concrete that you want with Shift-Scrollwheel once (instead of crafting it) and place it in your Hotbar, and it will stay the type of Hazard Concrete that you selected (especially useful with Dectorio).
Or you just go into the Middleclick Filter Menu for the Hotbar Slot and select the Concrete Design there like it is already possible to do.

All of this is just removing the crafting step from Hazard Concrete (and all the hassles involved in the existence of the separate Hazard Concrete Item) in a way that works well for as many people as possible.

[picklock]

I have issuse with the idea, as crafting items is in my opionion one of the main features of factorio. If I can use different items without crafting them this feels worong for me. And where will you stop? Do the same with power poles, belts, assembling machines or inserters? No, I don't want this.

[leadraven]

I have issuse with the idea, as crafting items is in my opionion one of the main features of factorio. If I can use different items without crafting them this feels worong for me. And where will you stop? Do the same with power poles, belts, assembling machines or inserters? No, I don't want this.

No-no-no. Power poles, belts etc have different recipes. TS only suggested to make togglable selection for them.
Hazard concrete has no cost, it is decoration.

[GregoriusT]

I have issuse with the idea, as crafting items is in my opionion one of the main features of factorio. If I can use different items without crafting them this feels worong for me. And where will you stop? Do the same with power poles, belts, assembling machines or inserters? No, I don't want this.

What? This is literally only for Concrete, which by the way in its current implementation is quite flawed in its Design. This is not one of those "supposed to spread over the whole Game" kinda things, I am sure the Factorio Devs would never let that garbage happen.

There is a huge difference between functionally different Items and Items that are literally the same but only look different.

Concrete and Hazard Concrete are literally the same in all aspects but their looks, same goes for the more Advanced Concrete and Advanced Hazard Concrete. This does not mean that Concrete and Advanced Concrete would be interchangeable ever.

Hazard Concrete and its advanced Counterpart are as far as I know the only Item in Factorio that is purely Decorative in nature, this Idea applies to decorative things, not to functional or balance related things.

I have seen the huge mistake of making Decoration-Only variations of things craft-specific (without there being any dye or something involved) in a bunch of Games, and I even made that mistake myself a few times, and it was just flat out annoying to deal with for everybody without having any proper purpose. It just limited the creativity for no reason other than "well you have to put lots of effort into it, if you want to slightly change the design", forcing you to commit to an Idea you probably would have changed if it was easier to do so, but sunk cost fallacy strikes, and what you have built ends up being not as nice as you wanted it to look like.

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I dont get why people interpret literal Satan into valid Ideas just to make sure nobody likes the Idea, because they are afraid this could ruin other completely unrelated parts of the Game, which are not even supposed to be changed by this, nor would the Devs ever break the Game that way...

[ssilk]

Their function is to run faster. Theoretically hazard concrete could be slower than concrete (would make sense in my eyes).

[Deadlock989]

Their function is to run faster. Theoretically hazard concrete could be slower than concrete (would make sense in my eyes).

Makes about as much sense to me as paint made from glue, but you can mod that in for yourself if you really think it's a good idea.

[ssilk]

Please try to understand, what I meant with putting in the word “theoretical”.

[Deadlock989]

I know what "theoretical" means. What you actually meant by it is a different matter.

[GregoriusT]

Their function is to run faster. Theoretically hazard concrete could be slower than concrete (would make sense in my eyes).

Pretty sure that Suggestion already received a no, when I looked up Hazard Concrete Suggestions. Was a Suggestion of Hazard Concrete making you slower in order to "warn" you that you are getting off track or so. (or on track, in case of Rails XD)

Edit: anyways that would be the one I meant viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43607&p=253083

[FuryoftheStars]

LARGE EDIT:

The way that I would personally prefer for Concrete, after all of these nice Suggestions would be as follows.

- Make Concrete and all of it's Hazard Variants the same Placer Item.
- Have all the Hazard Concretes drop the normal plain Concrete when deconstructed or harvested. (potentially also same for Colored Concretes should they be allowed)
- Let the placer Item for Concrete act like a Blueprint Book when it comes to Shift+Scrolling. (instead of my original Rotation Idea)
- Let each Placer Item in your Hotbar save the Design that got last selected, so you can have multiple Concrete Designs on your Hotbar. (No crafting of Designs needed at all whatsoever if it is like this!)
- Keep the ///// and \\\\\ versions Rotations of each other like before.
- Put a Tooltip on Concrete that there is Designs to select so people actually know it can be done. (similar to the Tile Removal Tooltip)
- Ofcourse the Placer Item would still act like a Tile Brush, and still be able to place both, Ghosts and Tiles like it already does.
- Add some sort of Modding API Hook to add Designs. The old way of crafting each Design will still work, but the new way would be preferable.
- Generally just assume everything not mentioned continues to work as is.

I actually like this idea. Though I think as already stated elsewhere, only for switching between a tile type and it's direct colored/hazard variants (may require adding a new group category to the tile prototypes). As such, no switching from concrete to refined concrete without actually crafting refined concrete, etc.