Use nuclear product for Portable Fusion Reactor

[Hannu]

Portable solar cells are useless. At least when I lastly used them. If I fill 5 x 5 grid with one exoskeleton, one roboport, night vision, one battery to give a meter and fill it with solar cells I can not use robots or get significant increase of speed even at day. In my opinion modular armor and such basic minimum building set should work at least during days. Shields or laser defenses could need higher tier equipment. I would increase power if solar cells instead of new power source between them because I can not see any use for current solar cells. Also whole modular armor is useless because I can not fit any equipment in addition to fusion reactor.

[bobucles]

. If I fill 5 x 5 grid with one exoskeleton, one roboport, night vision, one battery to give a meter and fill it with solar cells I can not use robots or get significant increase of speed even at day.

One exoskeleton

Found your problem. Solar cells can not satisfy an exoskeleton. One pocket fusion can feed a bit more than its own size in exosuits. You need FIVE times that space in solar panels to do the same thing.

Solar cells aren't totally obsolete. They are still a huge step up when combined with shields and batteries. A 5x5 suit with shields, batteries and solar is very lethal at the point that medium and some large biters hit the field.

I do think there are maybe tech tree issues between modular armor stuff. For example power armor MK2 is not a very difficult step over Mk1, but MK1 is a pretty big leap in difficulty over modular armor. These are tweaking issues and aren't a major game concern outside of PvP.

[Ranakastrasz]

. If I fill 5 x 5 grid with one exoskeleton, one roboport, night vision, one battery to give a meter and fill it with solar cells I can not use robots or get significant increase of speed even at day.

One exoskeleton

Found your problem. Solar cells can not satisfy an exoskeleton. One pocket fusion can feed a bit more than its own size in exosuits. You need FIVE times that space in solar panels to do the same thing.

Solar cells aren't totally obsolete. They are still a huge step up when combined with shields and batteries. A 5x5 suit with shields, batteries and solar is very lethal at the point that medium and some large biters hit the field.

I do think there are maybe tech tree issues between modular armor stuff. For example power armor MK2 is not a very difficult step over Mk1, but MK1 is a pretty big leap in difficulty over modular armor. These are tweaking issues and aren't a major game concern outside of PvP.

Yep, That's the main reason I added lower tier stuff to Modular Armor revamp. serious gaps in power. Also I did the math a long time ago. you can fit 17 solar panels and one exoskeleton, which is only 85% of it's power consumption. Hence increasing the output to 25/tile, and adding the weaker exoskeleton, 2x1, costs 25kW, and gives +5%.
That and the tiny shields ensures that you can immediately get a stable powered armor out of it, but upgrading to more reliable tech slowly brings you up to endgame vanilla, and somewhat past it (at massive cost)

Vanilla solar panels are hilariously weak compared to fusion reactors, and simply cannot fill the role they seem to be for. Best case, you put a single shield, plenty of batteries, MAYBE nightvision, and as many solar panels as you can fit. Gives you extra health, with a massive recharge time.
Doubling or tripling the power has a huge impact. at 25/tile, you only need 8 of them to run an Exoskeleton.....

I just realized how off topic this is.

and can run shields and w.e. else.

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Fusion reactor, rename to fission reactor and force to use Nuclear-Rocket fuel, or nuclear fuel cells. i personally Cut the efficiency to 5%, since even with the slightly higher output I used, it would still last more than 2 hours per cell, whereas now it only lasts 7 minutes, enough to make it worth it, but compared to using other sources, not exactly efficient.

Alternatively, could make it use 100 U-235 or something to craft each one, and make it an RTG.

[herkalurk]

Alternatively, could make it use 100 U-235 or something to craft each one, and make it an RTG.

I like this idea. I have so much U-235 stored I want the costs to be higher.

[Deadly-Bagel]

I'd have a specific charging module though, maybe multiple tiers of them. Otherwise you just get "all the power you could ever need" for yourself without doing anything for it.

If it needs restricting, just limit the amount of power each tier of armour can pull. Say that Modular Armour can take 100KW from power networks, Power Armour 500KW and MK2 1GW.

Batteries are going to be the main source of charging for shields so charge rate there is irrelevant, we need to look at Exoskeletons and Roboports. 100KW will happily charge 5 robots indefinitely so you could probably have 2-3 Roboports running quite happily, maybe more with some batteries depending on the scale of stuff you're trying to build.

500KW would do for any number of robots only (6 MK2 Roboports gives 24 charge slots at 480KW) but if you want to fill it with Roboports I don't see why not, you can more or less already do that. Alternatively, it will support 2 Exoskeletons with 100KW leftover which is more on-par with being a step towards what we can do with the MK2 armour now (instead of a bump in the pavement).

1GW is a bit over 1 Fusion Reactor and will power 3 Exoskeletons and Roboports like we have now.

OP? Well keep in mind that you're not permanently within electric network coverage, so when using Shields or Exoskeletons you'll need to stick to electric poled areas and you'll occasionally need to stop and charge (batteries will only increase the time between charges). This is still a decent buff to Modular Armour and Power Armour but they need one to be relevant. The MK2 armour would be initially weaker than it is now but when you get Kovarex process running you can build a few Fission Reactors.

[Ranakastrasz]

Using network for charging is surprisingly OP, since you can easily drag a line of power poles behind you. One thing i did was cut the charge rate by 90% for 2 seconds after taking shield damage.

[bobucles]

Doubling or tripling the power has a huge impact. at 25/tile, you only need 8 of them to run an Exoskeleton.....

I'm not a fan of running exosuits off of the basic 5x5. I honestly don't think it's appropriate or needed when the player has access to rock paving (an automatic exosuit's worth of speed boost) and has vehicles to bridge the gap. The age of 5x5 armor is still very open map so the car is a great speed boost and should be the norm.

I do think that solar needs a bit of a buff. I also think they should be 2x2 modules. The larger design has better graphics potential and helps guide player expectations of how much X they need in a suit. Saying a player needs "2 shield and 16 solar" is odd but "2 shields and 4 solar" makes much more intuitive sense.

Using network for charging is surprisingly OP, since you can easily drag a line of power poles behind you. One thing i did was cut the charge rate by 90% for 2 seconds after taking shield damage.

The most important metric for suit power is the energy generation per slot. Solar generates about 7-8kW/tile over time, while pocket fusion generates almost 47kW/tile. A mid tier solution like the induction charger should be somewhere in the middle, generating 15-20kW/tile. So a 2x2 charger generates 60-80kW. That's very good.

I seems I was in error. Solar cells generate closer to 1/6th or 1/7th less energy than fusion. That's nearly an order of magnitude! It's no wonder solar struggles to get anything done.

I like this idea. I have so much U-235 stored I want the costs to be higher.

Let's not go crazy here. Pocket fusion is very much a 1-shot recipe. You can't solve supply/demand issues by making a 1-shot recipe stupidly expensive. A more proper solution is to make uranium a regularly consumed resource. For example, use uranium as an ingredient somewhere in the end game science chain. That way it is always in demand and thus won't stockpile as much.

If I were to do a major suit overhaul it'd look something like this:

Code: Select all

Modular suit => 4x6, 24 tiles (-1 tile nerf) but an increase from 4 "2x2 standard modules" to 6. 

Power armor 1 => 6x8. 48 tiles (-1 nerf), but increases from 9 standard modules to 12. Remove blue chips and instead add Eff2 modules in recipe.

Power armor 2 => Recipe overhaul. Use low density structure, rocket control units, eff3, and Power armor Mk1.

Pocket solar: Scaled up to 2x2 module. Energy buffed from 40kW(4x10kW) to 50kW

Pocket fusion: Recipe changed to use some amount of uranium. I prefer depleted fuel cells (IRL nuclear waste makes the best RTGs) since it causes nuclear reactors to become the EXPENSIVE prerequisite for the recipe. Players can build naked reactors and run them at 1000C to get depleted fuel(Bonus, building pocket fusion means building gigantic nukes in your base! very nice for PvP ;) ). I'm not a fan of requiring U235 because that forces Kovarex research and I think U238 needs more use.

Induction charger: A 2x2 that produces 60-80kW when inside your power grid. This might even be merged with the discharge defense since who bothers with that? Induction chargers favor defensive players in a PvP or PvE scenario and are less effective when fighting outside the grid on offense.

But that all is just like, my opinion.

[herkalurk]

Let's not go crazy here. Pocket fusion is very much a 1-shot recipe. You can't solve supply/demand issues by making a 1-shot recipe stupidly expensive. A more proper solution is to make uranium a regularly consumed resource. For example, use uranium as an ingredient somewhere in the end game science chain. That way it is always in demand and thus won't stockpile as much.

But I think that all of the nuclear recipes are light on the amount of uranium used. Maybe the uranium pistol/machine gun ammo is fine, but the nuclear fuel should probably use more than just 1 U-235. Nuclear bombs use 30, not sure if that's too low or if more would be better.

Also lets find some more uses for it. I have 3 different locations mining uranium and it's more than fast enough to keep up because I end up using so little. Most of the U-238 usage is Kovarex.

[bobucles]

the nuclear fuel should probably use more than just 1 U-235. Nuclear bombs use 30, not sure if that's too low or if more would be better.

The nuclear fuel recipe produces 10 fuel cells for 1 U235 AND 19 U238. That's a nice chunk of uranium demand but it does go a long way in a reactor.

If you have heaps of U238 then the only thing to do is enrich it, of course. The piles of U235 build up because the piles of U238 are overflowing. So if you want to reduce U235 production, the best solution is to place more demand on U238 so it never goes through Kovarex in the first place. Where are good places to add uranium to a recipe?

- Artillery ammo. Players use artillery ammo in BULK to clear out nests with near impunity. It only makes sense for this ultimate ammo to require the ultimate resource. Replace the normal shells with uranium shells to make each artillery shell cost 4 U238. Use a dozen artillery trains and you'll be clearing out boxes of uranium. This also helps make PvP artillery more difficult to set up.
- Science potion ingredients. Production science just had a cost reduction and only requires 2 ingredients. Add uranium to the recipe. It encourages players to get their feet wet and U238 is pretty easy access after blue research. The only balance issue is the centrifuge is a bit too expensive to unlock as is.
- Suit modules. The fusion reactor is a great place to demand uranium but as mentioned this is a 1-shot recipe. Players won't automate this so it won't be a recurring demand and the Uranium will keep piling up.

I'm not a fan of adding U235 into every single recipe. Anything that needs U235 is essentially gated behind Kovarex research, which is a very huge step. Most recipes simply don't deserve to be pushed that far back.

I would prefer to see Fuel Reprocessing get a buff. It doesn't solve any supply issues for the player because U238 is already in abundant supply.

[herkalurk]

- Artillery ammo. Players use artillery ammo in BULK to clear out nests with near impunity. It only makes sense for this ultimate ammo to require the ultimate resource. Replace the normal shells with uranium shells to make each artillery shell cost 4 U238. Use a dozen artillery trains and you'll be clearing out boxes of uranium. This also helps make PvP artillery more difficult to set up.
- Science potion ingredients. Production science just had a cost reduction and only requires 2 ingredients. Add uranium to the recipe. It encourages players to get their feet wet and U238 is pretty easy access after blue research. The only balance issue is the centrifuge is a bit too expensive to unlock as is.

I do think there should be a higher tier of artillery ammo with uranium involved. It's kind of sad that the very expensive artillery shell is much less powerful than a nuclear bomb.

I would like to see some uranium involved in science. It would mean it's a required element to continue into the late game.

[Tekky]

I do think there should be a higher tier of artillery ammo with uranium involved. It's kind of sad that the very expensive artillery shell is much less powerful than a nuclear bomb.

Corresponding suggestion thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55088 Nuclear Artillery Shells

I would like to see some uranium involved in science. It would mean it's a required element to continue into the late game.

I agree. At least the highest science pack should (at least indirectly) require uranium.

[Hannu]

Solar cells aren't totally obsolete. They are still a huge step up when combined with shields and batteries. A 5x5 suit with shields, batteries and solar is very lethal at the point that medium and some large biters hit the field.

OK. It seems to be intended to give some bonus in combat. I usually avoid biters until I get power armor 1 and would prefer boost in building abilities in that phase of the game, when I begin to make larger production units. I would adjust modular armor so that it would be able to use equipment I mentioned. Power armor 1 would give second pair of legs and much more bots and Power armor 2 would make possible to build blueprints of tens of thousands of entities in reasonable time without need for pick up charging bots.

[dood]

Solar cells aren't totally obsolete. They are still a huge step up when combined with shields and batteries. A 5x5 suit with shields, batteries and solar is very lethal at the point that medium and some large biters hit the field.

Why would you fart around with a substandard shield if you can have a tank that completely dwarfs your durability and firepower?