[2.0.8 / space age] Send full cargo pods from space platform

[WeirdConstructor]

I am not sure, if I miss something or did not find how to do it.

TL;DR

There should be a away to tell the space platform to send full cargo pods, whole stacks or at least wait a bit before sending a pod down.

What ?

Here is an example: I make space science on the platform, and there is a whole batch arriving via the belt.
It feels kind of weird to me, that the space platform would send each space science in it's own cargo pod. At least almost, sometimes the pods also contain a few more science packs. In the screenshot the cargo pods each contain only a few packs, while a few milliseconds later 26 science packs arrive from inserters in the platforms cargo bay.


I kind of expected to have an option to tell the platform one of these conditions to send cargo down:

• Only send a full stack of item X.
• Send pod with item X if count of item > N.
• Wait N seconds if item X is in cargo bay, before sending it via cargo pod.
• Wait N seconds if a new pod could be sent, and then pack and send it.

I tried batching before inserting the science packs using an RS latch, but as soon as the first few science packs get into the bay, the cargo pods (3 pods!) are starting. And then I have to wait until the cargo pods have arrived, before the other 26 packs are sent.

Why ?

I know that cargo pods are free. But it still feels weird. It's like sending an iron ore train as soon as there is any cargo. It does not feel right to me, and it adds unnecessary delays sometimes (like in the situation in the screenshot).

10-23-2024, 18-57-33.png (1.47 MiB) Viewed 12134 times

[splee]

I know that cargo pods are free. But it still feels weird.

Yeah this is where I am too.

I understand that there are a variety of times when you'd want to push maximum logistic supply ASAP (ie new planet, also apparently platforms are also trains with schedules & interrupts doing deliveries *shrugs*) and that it's maybe not too easy to separate this from the "space science please!" case without being explicit about the items, which also doesn't feel good.

But yes, it's a spot & behaviour that feels odd.

Edit: poking around I found there's a custom minimum payload configurable for (non-construction) requests up to platforms. The same the other way like custom minimum payload for cargo landing pads would feel nice, but provide no gameplay value (because cargo pods are free while launches aren't) but would *feel nice*.

[Rinue]

Yes please. Pods are free, but animation can bottleneck you because some 3 science pack pods are flying around and it gets even weirder sometimes when you request from multiple specialized platforms. Minimum cargo for sending a drop pod would solve this.

[Stranger92]

Came here to suggest the same idea. Bothers me a lot as well. Same reasons, same use-case.

[Stargateur]

I don't see the problem, if there is a delay the next drop will contains all items that was waiting so next shipment will have lot of item.

[Rinue]

I don't see the problem, if there is a delay the next drop will contains all items that was waiting so next shipment will have lot of item.

Multiple planets/platforms supporting your main production center. Those small ones are in queue too. So you get big science shipment + few small residual ones, then there is big iron plate drop that is already waiting for pad to clear, add few more and the next big science shipment waits for 10 tiny drops to unload. Maybe it's a bug and they should all land if you have enough bays active, but it doesn't happen if few places ships to Nauvis like 15 payloads at once

[Stargateur]

I don't see the problem, if there is a delay the next drop will contains all items that was waiting so next shipment will have lot of item.

Multiple planets/platforms supporting your main production center. Those small ones are in queue too. So you get big science shipment + few small residual ones, then there is big iron plate drop that is already waiting for pad to clear, add few more and the next big science shipment waits for 10 tiny drops to unload. Maybe it's a bug and they should all land if you have enough bays active, but it doesn't happen if few places ships to Nauvis like 15 payloads at once

The real problem is no way to have multiple cargo bay on the planet but there is another topic for that

[DragoonGXG]

TLDR: This is a non-issue.

I'm receiving from 3 different platforms simultaneously on Nauvis at the moment with NO issues.

Be aware, if you don't want to know, and WANT to figure this out on your own, just experiment (and don't read the following).

Spoilers Ahead

You can expand your cargo landing pad with cargo bays to alleviate queuing issues.
You might have a bug if there are issues after you implement the following changes, see picture.
This also applies to space platforms however, I understand that for mirco-builds this would be a huge concern as cargo bays take up alot of space in space...

On that note, small form factor space platforms shouldn't have this issue either due to rockets only sending full cargo pods.

Edit:
The delay on pod arrival makes visual identification useless.
(Green = in use, Yellow = status change, Red = not in use; backwards I know).

Cargo Bay Scaling.png (1.44 MiB) Viewed 11386 times

IF you want to share some Space Age tips and tricks, try checking out viewtopic.php?f=18&t=117167

[WeirdConstructor]

TLDR: This is a non-issue.

I'm receiving from 3 different platforms simultaneously on Nauvis at the moment with NO issues.

...

This thread is not about if it is working or not working. It's about the fact that there is absolutely no buffering for the first science packs, even if more could be sent within that pod. A small buffer time (1-2 seconds) between "something to send down is available" and sending the cargo pod down would really make this feel a bit better. Of course it works like it is currently, it just feels off.

A small buffer or inactivity timeout would make it possible to batch multiple items together. I would be fine if I could do that with circuits, but I can't because the first insertion into the cargo bay already triggers that a cargo pod is packed (with just 1 to 4 items) and sent down.

Be aware, if you don't want to know, and WANT to figure this out on your own, just experiment (and don't read the following).

...

IF you want to share some Space Age tips and tricks, try checking out viewtopic.php?f=18&t=117167

I don't see a solution in the spoilered section or the thread for the original issue I described.

Edit: The reason this feels off is, that no engineer would send a cargo pod from a space station for just one item, if there are more available within fractions of second (one fast inserter swing). This is why we have "inactivity timeout" available as waiting conditions for trains and platforms. Just not for single pods - I don't argue we need waiting conditions for pods, but I argue that there should be a minimal timeout built in that makes sure things get batched a little bit better within one cargo pod.

[DragoonGXG]

I was a bit shocked at first as well. It would have definitely struck a cord with me more had the return trip cost a small amount of resources or increased delay between shipments. Due to me expanding my cargo area early into the game, this nuance didn't bother me as much and it eventual slipped from my mind. As you have stated, a "control" feature of some sort would be helpful in fine tuning outputs with a potential added negative, that being an increase in micro management. Thanks again for posing the question!

[qoalabear]

I ran into a related issue where the landing pad's first request was locking up the drop pod queue(?) with incremental pods after every few swings of the inserters, preventing any other requests from being fulfilled at all until I temporarily disabled the first request. For that reason, I also found myself wanting to set a minimum drop pod delivery, similar to how minimums can be configured for space platform requests.

TLDR: This is a non-issue.

I'm receiving from 3 different platforms simultaneously on Nauvis at the moment with NO issues.

Be aware, if you don't want to know, and WANT to figure this out on your own, just experiment (and don't read the following).

Spoilers Ahead

You can expand your cargo landing pad with cargo bays to alleviate queuing issues.
You might have a bug if there are issues after you implement the following changes, see picture.
This also applies to space platforms however, I understand that for mirco-builds this would be a huge concern as cargo bays take up alot of space in space...

On that note, small form factor space platforms shouldn't have this issue either due to rockets only sending full cargo pods.

Edit:
The delay on pod arrival makes visual identification useless.
(Green = in use, Yellow = status change, Red = not in use; backwards I know).
Cargo Bay Scaling.png

IF you want to share some Space Age tips and tricks, try checking out viewtopic.php?f=18&t=117167

Thank you! That spoiler has fixed my current issue, though I'm still not convinced I should need to do that just to handle the modest amounts of cargo my factory is handling.

Further reply to spoiler

My factory is still tiny. I haven't had to deal with the inventory limit at all yet, so had never placed a cargo bay until I found this thread. The only in-game hint I can see to this behavior is that the Factoriopedia entry for Cargo Bays specifies that it launches and receives cargo pods, something I hadn't noticed.

[splee]

Due to me expanding my cargo area early into the game

This is still just a workaround.

If someone isn't in the habit of building vastly more cargo space than they need, or arranges to not need so much, or first encounters this problem early on a different planet with no easy way to get more cargo extensions at that point, that's an issue.

For a game that does so well at smoothing every other UI interaction, it's a bit jarring to ask "wait where's all the belt and undergrounds I said to drop?" and find that it's still in orbit perpetually stuck in the drop queue behind a constant stream of 1x carbon pods you were using to jump start the powergrid.

[TheDash]

Game is working as intended, it just feels weird and, more importantly, visually noisy. So how about this for smoothing it over:

If a cargo pod is launching or has just launched within X ticks, just teleport newly ready items into the existing cargo pod and delay the next cargo pod by X ticks.

[SYCLOPS]

I believe I have achieved what is being asked about here by settings two stations for the same planet and having one with a wait condition and the unload option not checked. Then it waits at that step until conditions are met then goes to the next step on the same planet with the unload checked.

Here is an example where it will not unload unless there are 50 science packs:

50 science only.png (30.68 KiB) Viewed 9351 times

edit: might not be the solution, starts sending as often as it can once the met requests are just one below threshold and while the platform has over 50.
but, can just add a time passed wait.

There is probably a more elegant solution with setting requests on the planet with circuit network and having the platform wait till a certain number is reached.

[WeirdConstructor]

I believe I have achieved what is being asked about here by settings two stations for the same planet and having one with a wait condition and the unload option not checked. Then it waits at that step until conditions are met then goes to the next step on the same planet with the unload checked.

Wow, that is good thinking! ♥

[DragoonGXG]

A priority system would definitely be beneficial.
IE: manual drops take priority in queue, then top to bottom or from the ground platform queue.

[splee]

There is probably a more elegant solution with setting requests on the planet with circuit network and having the platform wait till a certain number is reached.

Yeah I was thinking about doing a similar thing with interrupts, but this is cleaner. It's a good start even if not perfect setup, and maybe it's as easy as having a wait condition on the "delivering" stop for item count < 10 or suchlike, so that when it bottoms out it goes back to waiting.

Edit: oh wait nearly but also not quite. If the landing pad fills then the platform still dispatches cargo one at a time at the rate things are removed from the landing bay. Then it still does need planet-side circuits.

[Diggs00]

I found a solution by only requesting one item at a time from the landing pad, you speed up the send rate and minimum send capacity.

I made a bp that does just that, so every 60 sec, it changes the requested item.

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Copy blueprint

[kitters]

Feel weird for me also, it's one of the first things I asked here after playng space age. Didn't believe that it's normal, thought I did smth wrong. Please, fix.

[nimfo]

if someone hasn't figured yet how to set up full cargo drops, this helped me

11-10-2024, 14-21-42.png (51.58 KiB) Viewed 3953 times