Auto-launching of mixed rockets

[gyorokpeter]

If you have requests from a space platform that you have all the materials for on the planet, they should be requested by the rocket silo if they can fill a rocket even if the individual items can't fill a rocket by themselves.

There are two main use cases for this. First is construction, where you need a diverse array of items in small quantities of each. Even if you need only 5 furnaces, 3 assemblers and 8 turrets on your platform, the auto-request will send 50 of each, even though sending just 1 rocket will the mixed items would be cheaper.

The other is quality items, which tend to accumulate much slower for expensive items like tier 3 modules. Allowing an automatic request of say 5 modules and 800 science would be better in terms of rocket usage than the current system where you can only request the 5 modules individually, using up a rocket, and then the science in another request which might as well go up to 1000 to use the full rocket. Also the setting of the minimum launch size doesn't work for construction materials, only explicit request for items.

[MrFaul]

You can set a custom rocket load out on the space platform, there is a option for that.
But I think it's still only a single type of item that gets send, so the rocket is mostly empty.

You're supposed to automate that with the circuit network.
And honestly I think it's fine that way, it's still easier than real rocket science 🤣

[Ylwhrt]

You can set a custom rocket load out on the space platform, there is a option for that.
But I think it's still only a single type of item that gets send, so the rocket is mostly empty.

You're supposed to automate that with the circuit network.
And honestly I think it's fine that way, it's still easier than real rocket science

the game doesnt expose enough signals to really automate rocket launches in any competent way, plus for some UNGODLY stupid reason rockets in transit are not included in the request math so you will ALWAYS overload rockets, i honestly do not know how these silo's made it into the game with earendel on the team

[Wiwiweb]

+1, was going to make my own thread.

I don't understand the "you're supposed to automate this with circuits" response, as far as I know that's not possible.

Screenshot from 2024-10-26 13-19-48.png (24.04 KiB) Viewed 1325 times

I can launch all of this with 1 manual rocket. If I want to automatically launch it, it's going to take 8 rockets no matter what. Either it will use 8 rockets completely filled with each item, or you set custom minimum payloads for every single item (have fun), and then it will use 8 mostly empty rockets.

This is particularly annoying when building a new platform, since that needs a handful of a various types of items, especially if you're mixing qualities. You paste your new platform blueprint, click "auto-request missing construction materials", and then your platform gets built using 20+ rockets when only 3-4 could have sufficed if you launched things manually. This encourages manual intervention.

[abesto]

Thanks for making this post, found it wondering if I was doing something wrong.

This is not exactly trivial because: consider a naive solution. Sort requested items by weight, put in heaviest item that fits, repeat while there's anything that can be added. Now, the problem is: more likely than not, the rocket capacity is not 100% filled. What now? Launch anyway? Fill the rest with platform foundations "just in case"? What if there's a request coming in two seconds that'd let the rocket get completely filled (e.g. you're just designing the platform)? Set some minimum capacity usage % threshold maybe?

I think ideally I'd want something similarly configurable to train stopping conditions, with possible conditions like "requests didn't change for X seconds", and "rocket is at least X % full".

Or, yes, this could also be a fun challenge to solve with circuits if all the right signals were exposed, but AFAICT that slightly goes against the stated design goal of "everything should be solvable without heavy circuit magic". Of course one can argue manually loading mixed rockets is a solution.

i honestly do not know how these silo's made it into the game with earendel on the team

Heh. If this is the worst problem we find in the first ~week after release, I'm a happy (and impressed) man. Which, I am. I didn't encounter any of the bugs mentioned in the chonky post-release patch notes.

[Kerzenmacher]

Thanks for creating this thread.
I have the same issue - I load my silos with inserters, and would prefer not to have 1 silo for each material/item i want to export from vulcanus.
But my mixed rockets, even when they are "full" with 1 Ton of total cargo, don't launch, cuz neither one of the 2 item types in them has reached their minimum launch volume. And when I manually set the minimum launch quantity lower, my rockets launch almost empty..

A "launch once full" option for silos, or a circuit input to like "launch now" would be great to have.

[yarekt]

Simple answer to both posters above: Refund partial cost of rocket into % of the new rocket, if its launched not fully full. (Sure, limit it to 25% or 50% if you like). That'll be enough to just go with single item rockets, launching 3 crushers on their own.

If you've been reading FFFs, you'll notice developers re-thinking mechanics many times: Some things that are hard to do with automation aren't always a "welcome challenge", Some just artificially punish desire for more automation, especially when a manual solution is more attractive.

Overall though I'm enjoying space age quite a bit, I'm impressed at all the change of pacing, and its very very different to SE, and really *not* what I expected from the expansion all together. Well done team

[neko14789]

TL;DR

I want to request mixed payloads for rockets in Space Age.

What?

Currently, only one type of item can be auto requested for load into rocket per rocket.
This means that if I currently request 200 red circuits and 200 green circuits, the rocket will request 1000 red circuits to fill up the rocket and then the green circuits in a second rocket. You can currently lower the limit for this so that a rocket can start with only 100 red circuits, but this will waste the remaining capacity. Now, the feature request: please allow mixed payloads for rockets -> rocket will load 200 red and 200 green circuits and other items until payload limit is full in the same rocket.

Why?

Because this will waste less rockets.
Makes it easier to understand.
Helps with requesting many different items of small amounts for when you start building on a new planet without infrastructure, you can much better request a whole amount of stuff that you need to build.

[abesto]

Meanwhile, I found a manual but pretty painless solution. This works even remotely via construction bots.

• Disable auto-launching rockets

• Place a requester chest next to the silo (but no inserter)

• Set the chest to request all the things you want to send to the platform. An easy way to do this:
  • Wire the silo to the chest
  • Configure the silo to output orbital requests
  • Configure the chest to set requests from input signals

• Once all the items are in the chest, remove all requests (disconnect the wire if you used a wire from the silo)

• Place an inserter to load items from the chest into the silo (or you can place one earlier, just rotate it so it's not doing anything, or control it with a constant signal, or w/e)

• Manually launch the rocket when you're happy with the current load (probably when the inserter can't insert anything more)

[Koub]

[Koub] Merged into an older thread with the same suggestion.

[MEOWMI]

+1

The simplest solution in my mind is just have an option: "Launch rocket when full". Now that's not without edge cases nor caveats, but from all I've tested, tried, and thought of, it creates a possible solution for pretty much any situation that presently isn't available.

Why can you even load mixed items into a rocket to full capacity automatically (with inserters), if you cannot launch it automatically? It's as if the game is trying to accommodate mixed rockets by counting every item inside as part of the rocket, but then betrays your intent because it will never include mixed items in automatic launches. There is no reason to be able to load mixed items into a silo, if it then cannot launch automatically. At least, if mixed rockets are not possible, the game shouldn't trap me into trying to fill up rockets that won't be automatically launched.

As a side note, yes it is possible to have circuit-based alerts about your rocket being fulled and needing to be launched, but the launch is still completely manual, and this completely goes against the game's idea of automation.

[neko14789]

They could add some ID to spaceships that you would then include as a circuit signal to choose where to launch to. I think Space Exploration does it similar to this. Even if mixed rockets would be a thing, it would be nice to have some control with circuits where a rocket will be launched to.

[kythlyn]

If a space station has a list of requests and the planet below has bots and a mall of everything it needs, the rocket should just get as close to full as possible with as many of the requests as possible and launch. Honestly, I'm not sure what all of this nitpicking with rockets really adds to the game. Just adds a ton of micromanagement and keeps the player from more fun and interesting tasks. Either that or I just haven't found a fun way to solve the problem.