End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

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leeknivek
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End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

Hello, boys. This is going to be a long one. I've been thinking on this idea all week, mostly out of not wanting to stop playing the game!

TLDR: ENDGAME: instead of mining for colonization, to get rich, or to simply escape, I'm going to where the game started. Mining and production. Mining to do more production to do more mining to do more production to do more mining. Factorio is the name of the game, so, where better to continue than build a giant, customizable, modular space factory?

Ok, I'm going to try to sum this up as discreetly as I can. I've read that the Dev's had a spaceship as part of their plan for endgame. Something "fitting" of an ending for what Factorio is. Rocket defense is an anti-climactic ending, and to some degree, the suggested "get rich or die trying". I'm sort of basing this off of the latter.

Right before I was on this stint of Factorio, I was playing some Dead Space 2, which, if you're unaware, contains massive superships that are mostly self-sufficient and mine the heck out of planets.

I had imagined something modular - it isn't just a 3x3 plop-down spaceship that you send off into space. You build it. However you want - just like your factory. Some ships are efficient, some are dangerous, some will kill off every living thing in sight - whatever is at the whim - or limit - of the creative disposal of the player.

Now, they would have to contain some particular things. Engine rooms, control decks, a bridge, hallways - all to support auxiliary rooms for production. All of these cost a great amount of resources, because you're basically containing your factory inside instead of out on the grass where the sky is the limit.
Something along the lines of a pre-determined set of rooms
Here is a rendering of what I mean
If you've read this far, you'll be able to tell this will be very heavy on resources. But I think it's a very good incentive to find resources. It's exactly what was being done before, except now with that little bit of flair.
Particular rooms I can think of adding
Defense will be an issue, about as much as it is in the regular game. It might not be biters, but other entrepreneurial space tycoons like yourself might come a-knockin'. Swarms of ships and small outposts, minor planets will have their own offensive capabilities. If they see you're running around, by yourself, with the infrastructure to support an entire planet, they're going to want your ship. Pollution is still likely to give you away, even without an atmosphere.

I don't think the Factory Ship should be static, either. If it's possible to code, it should travel through a randomly generated space. Nothing too fancy. Within the world of Factorio, I find myself never really venturing that far. Biter nests get destroyed close by and then they aren't that much of a problem if you don't go out and bother them. This will be different, though. The Bridge is where you will control your path. Where you'll be able to use radar to find other entities and avoid or attack them.

Multiplayer would probably be too complex to have multiple enormous ships. I think a multiplayer game would be just fine with one ship for all players, having to work together. I don't know, I'm not a big player of multiplayer anyhow. But, attacking other's ships would be cool, too. There are very finite resources in space, and stealing from another player might just mean you have enough to get back home.....



I think that just about covers it. If I forgot anything, I'll come in and add it as I remember. Oh, and yes, this is my first post. I've been playing this since about version .7 or something, over a year. I'm not new to the game, just new to the forum.
Last edited by leeknivek on Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by Garm »

Nice suggestion, i like the style.


One thing i would like you to consider: It would be better to keep player old base still relevant, because frankly i would hate to find out that all these structures, all these things we have made (and developers spent their time working on) will become essentially redundant at space age. This isnt Spore - its not about progression, but factory manager design really.

As such I could see spaceships like that, but somehow inherently tied to the original base.

- offloading resources
- planet-based fabrication
- etc..

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

Thank you!

That's a very good point, there's a ton of time spent alone just on the infrastructure of building up to a smooth-running factory to begin with.

What I had in mind is not so much that it all becomes redundant, rather, one would have to optimize further to fit everything on board a ship. I don't know if that is a downfall or not. What I mean to say is, since it would cost so much in resources to build a ship of that size, one would have to pick and choose to add what's strictly necessary. But if anyone's played Factorio, they soon realize that just about everything is necessary at some point. The developers did a great job at balancing the recipes.

The positive side to this, though, is that you already have a ton set up. It could be a matter of deconstructing and reconstructing using blueprints and robots. "Moving" the factory. It's a chance to start "new" while still having technology researched, a good supply and network of resources, yet getting it off of that god-forsaken and hostile biter planet.

And, I mean, it's difficult to have something like an entire smelting facility set up on-board a ship. You could, if you wanted, but that's a lot of room. Yet, it's one of the biggest links in the production chain. That's where it allllllll comes from. One question that comes to mind is "Why not just build the ship to begin with?", but, you would need a massive industry set up to even produce it, so there is that. Since everything can be infinitely repurposed, I don't think it will all be for naught.

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

I've been doing some thinking, some playing, and some research. Here's what I've come up with.

I've been tinkering with the Uranium Power mod - it adds uranium enrichment and electricity generation through Nuclear Fission. Because of its realism, I did some research into actual Nuclear Fission. One thing worth mentioning is that a nuclear-propelled spacecraft is seven orders of magnitude more powerful than conventional propulsion systems. That's approximately 10,000,000 times more power than current spacecraft propulsion.

That's obnoxious - Factorio-level obnoxious.
A Brief Explanation of Nuclear Fission and Nuclear Power in General
A Brief Explanation of Steam Power

What I propose in addition to what has already been stated:

1. Nuclear Power
  • Having the ability to use Nuclear power, even in just a base alone, would offer a huge bonus to creating energy. Since you're using steam, it essentially becomes an upgrade to your boilers. More efficient.
  • For balancing reasons, also stated and applied by Liquius in his Uranium Power mod, something more expensive and more efficient than solar, yet sustainable and a smaller footprint.
  • Keeping the player base relevant, as suggested by Garm, would be moreso since you cannot easily mine, process and enrich Uranium on a ship that uses but does not contain uranium. A facility to produce it would be necessary.
2. Steam power
  • Steam turbines are typically more efficient than steam engines if the application is more than 1000HP. So, most electricity generating situations. Less than that, engines are more efficient than turbines - things like cars, trains, etc.
  • To effectively use the massive amounts of superheated steam, one would need a steam turbine, probably of the same 3x5 footprint of the steam generator (engine). This would require research, and indirectly act as an upgrade/replacement of steam generators (engines) in a late-game setting.
  • Steam turbines would be an ideal electricity generator on board a nuclear-powered spacecraft. Especially one that uses tons of electricity! Since there is no water in space, a condenser system will be needed to recycle steam in a closed-loop system. This cuts down on pollution and resources, since you're reheating water that is already warm, instead of using "new" 15° water every time. 93°C/200°F -> 370°C/700°F is less energy than 15°C/60°F -> 370°C/700°F
3. Logistics/Production/Management
  • One would really need to concentrate their effort into how to maintain their isolated, extraterrestrial spacecraft before taking off. (The character should have learned his lesson already if he is stranded on Biter Planet) This means that, if producing is the goal, then massive amounts of raw materials are needed. If simply escaping is the goal, then a small spacecraft capable of travel is really only necessary. I personally find that kind of boring, though.
  • In a vacuum, certain techniques are used actually allowing for more efficient smelting of ores and creation of alloys. Steel, since it is so prone to oxidation, is usually made in a vacuum. Copper, since it suffers even more from oxidation, would also benefit. Having separate rooms with different properties could allow toggleable vacuums to aid in the manipulation of metals. Recipes could be changed, meaning 2 Iron Plates makes one Steel Plate, rather than 5, because there will be no loss to oxidation. Basically, the equivalent of having a productivity module. The drawback is that one cannot easily enter and exit a vacuum without their own atmosphere, ie, a space suit.
  • There is already Power Armor, Mk. I and Mk. II - a Mk. III successor could be a space-capable suit
    • Power Armor Mk. III, space-capable, would allow a larger grid for placing things, yet an array of necessary items in order to work properly in space. Oxygen accumulators, Oxygen tanks, gravity stabilizers, atmosphere generators, etc.
    • In addition, it would offer general upgrades to its predecessor, more armor mainly, but the larger interface would allow for more of whatever modules placed inside.

So, to sum it up, nuclear power offers a feasible means of getting to space, also power generation while in space. As far as production, one would have a mobile facility to process everything instead of a stationary setup shaped partly by where resources are. It's as if you mine up planets, leave, and process it all on a custom-designed ship. Like, using the map editor to manipulate the terrain to your advantage, almost.



I truly hope for more feedback on this. I'm very excited about this idea, and am open to all criticism.

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by ssilk »

Recommendation: take above article and split it into two new (about energy and logistics), cause here they are going under. :)

I'm also a bit unsure about the statements you bring: steam is 8 times efficient than diesel? Nuclear power is "very safe" compared to other energy? Steel is made in vacuum?
Please refer to your sources, if you make such statements.
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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

The way a steam engine operates is inherently more efficient than a 4-stroke or 2-stroke engine.

Say you have a v8 gas or diesel and a 1-cylinder steam engine. They both have the same stroke and bore. The steam engine will output at least the same amount of power, since within each "stroke" there are "two" power strokes. There is a power stroke on the up and down stroke. A 4-stroke engine means that once every four full up and down revolutions you have a power stroke - power is transmitted to the driveshaft. 2-stroke is 2 revolutions.

Fuel is also burned more effectively in an external combustion engine, since all the fuel can be burned. Internal combustion engines burn some fuel and lose the rest through exhaust. I have to go to work, if you require a more substantial source, I will find one for you.

Nuclear power - "In terms of lives lost per unit of energy generated, nuclear power has caused fewer accidental deaths per unit of energy generated than all other major sources of energy generation. Energy produced by coal, petroleum, natural gas and hydropower has caused more deaths per unit of energy generated, from air pollution and energy accidents." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_po ... cial_costs

Note that I did not say it was "very safe", rather, less casualties per unit of energy generated.

steel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_arc_remelting




Thank you for calling me out - I know they aren't well-known things.

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by ssilk »

leeknivek wrote:The way a steam engine operates is inherently more efficient than a 4-stroke or 2-stroke engine.
....
Fuel is also burned more effectively in an external combustion engine, since all the fuel can be burned. Internal combustion engines burn some fuel and lose the rest through exhaust. I have to go to work, if you require a more substantial source, I will find one for you.
Well. We are talking about efficiency? Efficiency doesn't depend on how many strokes a motor needs, it depends on, how efficient the fuel is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency , https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fuel) and how efficient it can be burned and converted into movement, see for example https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/g ... ng.766217/ at the very end there are some useful diagrams. The best gas-turbines (steam=gas) have an efficiency of around 50%. The best diesels are comming to about 40%.
Nuclear power - "In terms of lives lost per unit of energy generated, nuclear power has caused fewer accidental deaths per unit of energy generated than all other major sources of energy generation. Energy produced by coal, petroleum, natural gas and hydropower has caused more deaths per unit of energy generated, from air pollution and energy accidents." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_po ... cial_costs
Well, statstics. No insurance assures an nuclear plant, while there is no problem to assure a coal mine. The risk is just incalculable.
Not saying that burning coal is better. But if you replace coal with solar power, well, then that looks quite different.
Interesting, didn't know that. Steel can be produced without that. It is only about obtaining higher qualities.
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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

I don't mean to argue semantics in this thread. I think there is enough information pertaining to these topics here. But I would be willing to discuss these things in a PM, if you're so inclined, ssilk.

I would like to add, though, that purified refining of metals in a vacuum would offer,of course, more advanced technology. Better armor, weapons, faster and stronger machines. It offers, in real life, a much more controlled process.

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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by ssilk »

Sorry, for being a smart-ass. Sometimes I'm in this mode, when I see wrong stuff ...
...no need to discuss this further, I really don't wanted to pluck your suggestion into pieces. :roll: The best I stop it now. :)

Wait, I still recommend to split your second post into two single suggestions. See also the sticky threads in the suggestion board!
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Re: End Game Idea - Enormous Modular Spaceship Factory

Post by leeknivek »

That's ok, I can get the same way. Like I said, I appreciate you calling me out - I don't WANT to be wrong! But, for the sake of "it's just a game" :?

Anyways, I don't understand what you mean to split it into two pieces. Two different threads? My basis for suggesting both, despite them being large, is that, to me anyways, they fell under the same part of a means to an end for the bigger, main suggestion: the spacecraft.

I did read through all of the stickies; the warnings and the examples. I'm just trying to tie everything together, to some degree.

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