Not zoom to cursor

[aka13]

Interesting, but I strongly disagree. That is exactly why I prefer the mouse over any controller, because I do move it around a lot to any point that I wish, and I do so actively, including zooming to cursor.

[SupplyDepoo]

Perhaps this could be a separate input option (with no default keybinding).

[Illiander42]

I'm not. I'm talking about how everyone expects you to.

You've just used the camera the way i do even if you dont recognize it because it was attached to the character.

Except that you weren't in map view at the time, were you?

Map view gets different rules.

[Vulkandrache]

Except that you weren't in map view at the time, were you?

Map view gets different rules.

Please tell me how the rules differ.

All youve done so far is dismiss every one of my arguments with
no-substence half sentences.
At this point you are basicaly trolling.

[Illiander42]

Except that you weren't in map view at the time, were you?

Map view gets different rules.

Please tell me how the rules differ.

Because your view isn't attached to your character anymore.

[Vulkandrache]

Because your view isn't attached to your character anymore.

The camera moves up/down or left/right from me pressing buttons.
Regardless of the presence of the character.
It also zooms from scrolling the wheel. Regardless of the character.

The only difference is that, in the mapview, the zoom goes to the cursor (which i dont want)
and in the normal view it goes to the center of the screen.
It just so happens that the center of the screen is where the character is located.

The character being present or not has nothing to do with the camera itself.
Which i already tried to explain in my woodcutting experiment.

Or to use your basic example:
The character is attached to the camera.

[Koub]

OK now I understand ! I believe I have never been so slow to grasp something so simple

You want the zoom to always center to the center of the screen, no matter if the player is at the center of the screen (which is always the case when out of map mode, but not in map mode, where the camera can be moved independently from the position of the engineer).

Still don't agree, as I'm very much used to zooming to cursor pretty much everywhere (Windows photo viewer, google maps, Adobe reader, but also in games like Cyberpunk 2077 map, Terraria map, ...), and I enrage when the zoom-in feature zooms elsewhere. But I understand your arguments.

[Illiander42]

Or to use your basic example:
The character is attached to the camera.

Ahh, here's our basic difference.

I think the camera should zoom to the point I am most likely to interact with. Because that reduces the need to press extra buttons to get the map focused on where I want it, and moving the cursor is fast compared to WASD scrolling. And it enables the really nice "zoom out from point on left, zoom in on point on right" map jumping (which I use more than WASD scrolling in map view unless my base is too big for max zoom-out).

In normal view you're most likely to interact near the character, who happens to always be at the center of the screen.

In the map view, that's the cursor.

What I don't understand is why you don't want the map to zoom on where you are most likely to interact. Or possibly why your cursor isn't near where you're about to click.

A video of your normal mouse and map use might be helpful.

[Kyralessa]

Another good example of where this would be useful:

I have a speaker notifying me (by icon only) if I don't have enough reserve ammo. The icon starts flashing. I can click on it to center the map on where the lack of ammo is.

But if I try to zoom in to see the exact details, it zooms to the mouse, not to the point I just clicked on, unless I first move the mouse to that point.

I'd prefer to be able to click on the notification, then zoom to go straight there and see it.

[computeraddict]

The world abounds with programs that have both zoom-to-cursor and zoom-to-screen-center behaviors. Some have both in different contexts. This won't be the last time you see either. It pays to just get used to both schemes. It'll eventually just become reflex to use either correctly after encountering them.

[SupplyDepoo]

I think there has been enough explanations and I'm getting slightly annoyed by the reply notifications for this endless back and forth. You may want to read Vulkandrache's posts again:

Currently the map zooms to the position of the cursor.
This is awful and i would like the option to turn that off.

I want the zoom to happen independent of the position of the mouse so i can pan with the keyboard
while zooming with the mousewheel at the same time.

Having the zoom go to the cursor is distracting, confusing and at time infuriating.

There is an untold number of games out there with different behavior
and many of them let you choose between zoom to cursor or zoom to center.
Why is it that Factorio needs to be the odd one out here?

Of course i select things with the mouse. But i also zoom with the mouse and currently these two things dont work together.
Because zooming the screen pulls it to the position of the mouse or even worse, pulls it away from the mouse instead of straight up when zooming out.

I want to position the screen with the keyboard, zoom with the mousewheel and select stuff with cursor.
And all 3 of those should be independent of each other.

But yes, im making a no-brainer suggestions for an option commonly available in games
with a similar camera, if they dont use center-zoom in the first place.
And im suddenly finding myself having to explain my preferences in the face of arguments
as profound as "i like how it currenly is" and "you are holding it wrong".

Sometimes, early on, you need to remove parts of a forest by hand. Its not fun but not always avoidable.
If thats needed i place the mouse close to but not on the character and hold down right.
The rest of the work is done by the keyboard. I press Q W E and R in patterns.
Circle, Square, Zigzag, straight lines, squiggly lines, whatever strikes my fancy until the trees are gone.
Go ingame and do that for a minute, then come back.

You've just used the camera the way i do even if you dont recognize it because it was attached to the character.
If there is something "over there" i want to click on i dont move the mouse into the corner.
I pan the camera until the thing is close to the center, then move the mouse the last bit.

Naturaly sometimes i want to zoom while paning. Unless the mouse is perfectly center on the screen the current system
janks the camera into directions i didnt press button for it to go.

It is a simple feature request and probably not more than 20 lines of code, and no performance impact. I don't see a problem with adding this as an interface option or two extra input options.

Also, THIS:

Another good example of where this would be useful:

I have a speaker notifying me (by icon only) if I don't have enough reserve ammo. The icon starts flashing. I can click on it to center the map on where the lack of ammo is.

But if I try to zoom in to see the exact details, it zooms to the mouse, not to the point I just clicked on, unless I first move the mouse to that point.

I'd prefer to be able to click on the notification, then zoom to go straight there and see it.

Although I think it would be a better solution to place the alert icon on the map and keep it there for a few seconds after you click on the alert button.

[Illiander42]

I think there has been enough explanations and I'm getting slightly annoyed by the reply notifications for this endless back and forth.

Set your reply notification to only be when you're directly quoted?

Pretty sure that's the forum default?

[Qon]

I love the zoom-to-cursor. Especially when zoomed out far in map view. Like everyone else, I'm not in favor of removing zoom-to-cursor for everyone. I completely disagree with pretty much everything OP said in the first post.

But when in remote view, zoom-to-world is a bit jarring when it doesn't behave exactly as if my character was attached. When in zoom-to-world and building I'm not zooming to a location, I'm more concerned about placing the screen frame around the current relevant build.

Even stranger, this behavior is kind of available in god mode. You don't have a character but the game always zooms to center. You move faster while zoomed out like remote view, but your zoom out is limited a bit further out than when you have a character and you can't zoom out to to map or drag with mouse to move.

Also, since this is a user interaction feature and not a game content feature, having more options is better. It's good for the same reason that keybinds are good.

And it's good for accessibility, if you have a setup where you hardly have to move the mouse to play, being forced to recenter the mouse to zoom to avoid moving the view around isn't accessible. The building can be played in remote view by moving the view with keyboard mainly instead of moving the mouse. But zoom-to-mouse is rarely the correct option when the mouse is very far from the center.

You could have both features on different keybinds at the same time.

[computeraddict]

And it's good for accessibility, if you have a setup where you hardly have to move the mouse to play, being forced to recenter the mouse to zoom to avoid moving the view around isn't accessible. The building can be played in remote view by moving the view with keyboard mainly instead of moving the mouse. But zoom-to-mouse is rarely the correct option when the mouse is very far from the center.

I thought about this, but zoom in to mouse is usually accompanied by zoom out from mouse which would result in a net zero translation from zooming. I'm not at my gaming pc right now or I'd check if this is the case for Factorio.

[morsk]

I used zoom-to-cursor for years unconsciously, without noticing it was there. I didn't believe it existed when I opened this thread. I had to test it in-game and see, and I still hardly believe it.

I guess people like me are why it exists. We just mindlessly use it without noticing.

[Qon]

And it's good for accessibility, if you have a setup where you hardly have to move the mouse to play, being forced to recenter the mouse to zoom to avoid moving the view around isn't accessible. The building can be played in remote view by moving the view with keyboard mainly instead of moving the mouse. But zoom-to-mouse is rarely the correct option when the mouse is very far from the center.

I thought about this, but zoom in to mouse is usually accompanied by zoom out from mouse which would result in a net zero translation from zooming. I'm not at my gaming pc right now or I'd check if this is the case for Factorio.

Yeah, but if you have moved your view so the items are centered and you then zoom in to details then the view gets moved if your cursor is resting on the GUI at the edge. So then you have to move again, after every zoom adjustment. Not all zoom ins are followed by a zoom out with no action in between.

The net zero effect true but irrelevant.

[computeraddict]

Yeah, but if you have moved your view so the items are centered and you then zoom in to details then the view gets moved if your cursor is resting on the GUI at the edge. So then you have to move again, after every zoom adjustment. Not all zoom ins are followed by a zoom out with no action in between.

The net zero effect true but irrelevant.

This was in response to the case that the mouse wasn't being moved hardly at all. If you're capable of moving the mouse freely, you can just move the mouse. It's the most trivial UI interaction that you can do, far easier than lining up an unmarked point in the center of the screen with WASD. Every time I've used a zoom-to-center scheme I've still had to do the minor adjustments you talk about while zooming in because of the imprecision of the control scheme. To boot, this latest argument just reads as "if I use control scheme A as if it's control scheme B it works like control scheme A and not control scheme B." It's not a useful argument, because it can be made in favor of literally anything. "If I type zoomcenter:100,200 into console then zoom in it zooms into my mouse instead of the coordinates I typed." "If I type search:rocket_silo into console then zoom in it doesn't zoom in on the nearest rocket silo when I zoom in." "I have eye tracking software installed but the game doesn't zoom into where my eye tracker is focused." Similarly against a zoom-to-center scheme you could make the argument "I put my mouse over the building I was interested in but when I zoom in I have to keep adjusting my mouse to keep it over that building unless I pan it to the exact center of the screen first, which is finicky and difficult."

Would it be a small amount of work to add as an option? Probably. It'd be odd for folks as competent as Wube to have technical debt surrounding the zoom scheme. Is it worth even that small amount of dev and testing time? If it were my project, I'd say no. You're talking about hundreds of dollars worth of man hours to implement and test something that most people find inferior or don't care about one way or the other.

[Kyralessa]

You're talking about hundreds of dollars worth of man hours to implement and test something that most people find inferior or don't care about one way or the other.

Your cost estimate might be right or wrong, but the existence of this thread shows that your opinion of what "most people" care about is clearly wrong.

Certainly you're not the only one in this thread to display an astounding "Who's About to Move My Cheese?" level of self-centeredness, though.

The answer, which seems to be evading people, is: No one. No one is about to move your cheese. All people are asking for is a toggle option. If you don't like it, don't toggle it. This is not a hard concept.

[morsk]

Your cost estimate might be right or wrong, but the existence of this thread shows that your opinion of what "most people" care about is clearly wrong.

Certainly you're not the only one in this thread to display an astounding "Who's About to Move My Cheese?" level of self-centeredness, though.

The answer, which seems to be evading people, is: No one. No one is about to move your cheese. All people are asking for is a toggle option. If you don't like it, don't toggle it. This is not a hard concept.

Options take up space in the option UI, and make every other option harder to find and use. This is a huge cost. I have a suggestion for Alt mode I'm fond of, and has only supportive replies on it, and I think it would be very popular if it were added. But I'm able to realize the main cost of it is the options space, and this is not a small cost, and so it will probably never happen.

Maybe in a very different Factorio, with 10 times the option space, and ... some way of organizing it I can't even imagine. I'm imagining mind-reading actually, as I can't think of another way. Options put a burden on new players especially, when they get overwhelmed when already overwhelmed learning, and this is really bad.

[SupplyDepoo]

That argument doesn't work so much for keybindings IMO. There are already many screens worth of keybindings, so two more is hardly going to be noticed. Luckily, the keybindings are categorized and searchable, so there is even less reason to worry.

The other options menus are neatly organized and not too big, so I support a desire to keep it that way, but a not-so-popular yet easy to implement feature is perfect for tucking into the keybindings menu, if possible.