Allow setting recipies on factories before research

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Re: [0.15.2] Recipes not set on assembling mach. from blueprints

Post by Koub » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:30 am

[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion.
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Suggestion - Blueprint behaviour when recipe not available

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:02 am

Hi Devs, wonderful, beautify, glorious devs ..... and funny ... lets not forget funny ... I have a suggestion.

When placing a blueprint, the assemblers for which the recipe is not yet available show a 'not available' symbol in the blueprint,. but when the blueprint is placed, the assembler loses its' recipe. Can I ask that the recipe is retained on the assembler with the 'not available' strikethrough on the product?

If that is implemented, perhaps an option is the settings could be to allow us to choose to select recipes not yet available in manually placed assemblers.

Once the tech is research, the assembler activates and starts producing with no additional interaction required.

I suspect that all of us who have built mall blueprints who have to constantly update the mall by either manually selecting the correct product or repeatedly applying the same blueprint, would appreciate this update.

That is, unless someone can give me a better way!

Many thanks.

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Re: [0.15.2] Recipes not set on assembling mach. from blueprints

Post by Koub » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:54 am

[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion.
Also the devs' answer within this topic : viewtopic.php?p=276416#p276416
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Re: [0.15.2] Recipes not set on assembling mach. from blueprints

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am

Koub wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:54 am
[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion.
Also the devs' answer within this topic : viewtopic.php?p=276416#p276416
Thanks for merging Koub. I did search but didnt find ....

anyway, I don't understand the dev's answer on this. As others have pointed out, you can either prohibit an assembler being placed over a ghost with an unresearched item, or (my preference) have the machine set to produce the unavailable item with the machine deactivated and a visual indicator (the red circle with the diagonal line) that the reason the machine is not running is that the tech has not been researched.
Granted, I don't know how the assemblers have been coded internally, but my 'bodge it' solution would be to create an unavailable tech placeholder item for each real item. The machine can be set to produce "UnavalableTechPowerArmor2" that requires unobtanium in addition to it's normal ingredients, with the symbol for that item having the 'unavailable' symbol added to it. Even if we had to manually activate the machine it would be better as we would at least know what to set the machine to. If it is also possible to update the items to the real version when the tech is available, that would be better.

I guess I need to learn how to mod!!

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[0.17.72] Please set unresearched blueprints on assembly machine and other factories so it's same as all other buildings

Post by factoriouzr » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:45 pm

Please set unresearched blueprints on assembly machines and other factories so it's same as all other buildings.

Right now unresearched buildings are still placed as ghosts. Unresearched modules are also placed in placed buildings as blueprints. Requester chests have all their filters and limits set to unresearched entities. Filter and stack filter inserters have their filters set to unresearched entities.

Please make the game consistent and make factories have their recipes set to unresearched recipes as well.

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Re: [0.17.72] Please set unresearched blueprints on assembly machine and other factories so it's same as all other build

Post by Cribbit » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:39 pm

I would imagine the inability to set the recipe is the only thing actually stopping you from doing the production. It would mean having an external factor block the production, rather than the lack of recipe itself.

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by Koub » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:18 am

[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion.
Also the devs' answer within this topic : viewtopic.php?p=276416#p276416

@factoriousr : it's the 3rd time you start a thread with the same suggestion. Why not revive the old topic instead ?
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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by factoriouzr » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:57 pm

Without this feature is also makes it hard to use many blueprints because if you research things in a different order then in previous games where you made the blueprint, then when you place the blueprint, some of the factories in a chain (eg. to produce a certain subset of products) will not have their recipes set and thus the setup won't work.

This is quite a common problem where your research order will rarely be exactly identical to that of when you created the blueprint in a previous game. This now requires the player to try and guess what recipes the factories were supposed to be set up for and then try and research them one by one. This is also made harder because you can't zoom in on the blueprint preview to see what the assembly machine was making. Even if you could easily determine this, you would still have to individually check all assembly machines (and other types of factories) one by one to see what they were producing and then queue up the research. Then you would have to wait for the research to finish before queuing more up (limit of 5 or so researches in the queue, BTW, why do you even have a limit on the research queue, make it unlimited).

Currently this just makes blueprints harder to use, less useful and adds more tedious (not fun) tasks for the player to do. place blueprint - check factory in blueprint somehow for a factory that didn't have it's recipe set -> determine what factory was making -> queue up research -> wait for research to finish -> place original blueprint on top of the location where you first placed it to set the recipes - > check if another factory was not set from the blueprint -> <REPEAT>

This also has the issue that you can't change the setup of the blueprint you placed down the first time because then you won't be able to place the same blueprint over the existing buildings.

Basically the way this works currently is just a nightmare and limits creativity. You can't incrementally change your designs because you have to wait till every research is done that is needed by each blueprint.

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by Cribbit » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:14 pm

I don't feel like blueprinting is intended to be used to the scale that this entails. Maybe I'm wrong.

However, a couple of fixes I could see making people happier:

1. Using blueprint to set recipes on existing buildings, where a construction bot goes and travels to set the recipe if player is out of range
2. Pre-ghosts that won't have bots place the structure yet, which become normal ghosts once the tech in its recipe is researched. This also helps massive blueprints not place buildings that aren't needed yet. This was alluded to earlier in the thread.

I feel like both of these may be better as mods than in the base game, but that goes back to what the devs' vision of blueprints is.

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by mrvn » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:50 pm

factoriouzr wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:57 pm
Without this feature is also makes it hard to use many blueprints because if you research things in a different order then in previous games where you made the blueprint, then when you place the blueprint, some of the factories in a chain (eg. to produce a certain subset of products) will not have their recipes set and thus the setup won't work.

This is quite a common problem where your research order will rarely be exactly identical to that of when you created the blueprint in a previous game. This now requires the player to try and guess what recipes the factories were supposed to be set up for and then try and research them one by one. This is also made harder because you can't zoom in on the blueprint preview to see what the assembly machine was making. Even if you could easily determine this, you would still have to individually check all assembly machines (and other types of factories) one by one to see what they were producing and then queue up the research. Then you would have to wait for the research to finish before queuing more up (limit of 5 or so researches in the queue, BTW, why do you even have a limit on the research queue, make it unlimited).

Currently this just makes blueprints harder to use, less useful and adds more tedious (not fun) tasks for the player to do. place blueprint - check factory in blueprint somehow for a factory that didn't have it's recipe set -> determine what factory was making -> queue up research -> wait for research to finish -> place original blueprint on top of the location where you first placed it to set the recipes - > check if another factory was not set from the blueprint -> <REPEAT>

This also has the issue that you can't change the setup of the blueprint you placed down the first time because then you won't be able to place the same blueprint over the existing buildings.

Basically the way this works currently is just a nightmare and limits creativity. You can't incrementally change your designs because you have to wait till every research is done that is needed by each blueprint.
How about if you could drop the blueprint into a science lab and it would queue up the missing techs?

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by ssilk » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:51 pm

A queue that automatically research’s needed techs for a blueprint: genius idea!
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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by mrvn » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:12 am

ssilk wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:51 pm
A queue that automatically research’s needed techs for a blueprint: genius idea!
Yeah, now that I thought about I run into it while playing over the weekend 3 times. I wanted to place my old blueprint in a new game but some recipes where missing and I thought: Damn, if only I could just drop it on a science lab and have it queue up the right techs,..

I've got some time tonight to play. Maybe I will tackle that as a mod.

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Future Tech on Ghost Assemblers

Post by gth » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:36 am

TL;DR
When laying down a complicated blueprint, any recipes not researched yet are missing from assemblers. Can this be enabled just for ghost assemblers? I am *not* suggesting built and active assemblers should be checking if their assigned recipe has been researched or not.
What ?
Similar to various other items in blueprints that don't "yet" exist in the game (e.g. fast inserters, stack inserters, filter inserters, and even items specified in filters), I'm hoping a tweak to allow recipes not yet researched to be included in 'ghost' assemblers. If you drop an assembler onto that ghost and the recipe has been researched - great! However if the receipe has not been researched, you just end up with a vanilla assembler with no assigned recipe.

Example:
ghost receipes.png
ghost receipes.png (434.43 KiB) Viewed 186 times
(left assembler = active, no change to any of these)
(middle assembler = ghost, has a pre-defined recipe)
(right assembler = ghost, no recipe)
...the middle and right assemblers are what I'm discussing.

1. When the blueprint was laid down, red science is available from the tech tree (obviously), so the middle "ghost" assembler has a recipe pre-defined.
2. But the right assembler had yellow science (not yet researched), so when laid down from the blueprint it 'lost' its recipe. This is the behaviour I'd like to change.
Why ?
In complicated blueprints it may not be clear / or perhaps remembered by the user which assembler should have which recipe.

I have read suggestions to re-apply blueprints after new research is completed, however if a design is improved upon (iterative improvements are common, at least for me), doing a "repeat" blueprint click will somewhat ruin or at least confuse those improvements.
Related Search Results
viewtopic.php?t=65770 - "Set Recipes On Assemblers Even When Recipe Is Not Researched Yet"
I found this thread, but I didn't understand the argument as it seemed like 'active' assemblers were being discussed, which Iwas confusing. Hopefully I don't confuse my idea with that argument and we can have a disucssion on potential solutions (even maybe a mod-related flag of some kind, as a last resort?).

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by Koub » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:57 am

[Koub] Merged into (another) topic with same or similar suggestion
gth wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:36 am
Related Search Results
viewtopic.php?t=65770 - "Set Recipes On Assemblers Even When Recipe Is Not Researched Yet"
I found this thread, but I didn't understand the argument as it seemed like 'active' assemblers were being discussed, which Iwas confusing. Hopefully I don't confuse my idea with that argument and we can have a disucssion on potential solutions (even maybe a mod-related flag of some kind, as a last resort?).
Note : The ability to set a recipe in a factory or a ghost before the according tech is researched has been requested in many forms many times before. The devs have always answered no because it would add overhead (several dev answers in this thread)
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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by gth » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:19 pm

Okay, my bad for not finding the various idea posts. Thanks for the polite merge.

For the benefit of others seeking some kind of solution, two work-arounds I've found are either:
(a) paste your blueprint into this offline viewer to view all recipies -- http://fbpviewer.trakos.pl/
(b) create a dummy filter-inserter next to your assembler, with the relevant recipe as the filter item

Taking the dev's word as final that the game isn't going to change in this area (and it obviously is final, given how many times they've said no), is it worth pondering if there's a way a mod can provide similar functionality to what's being requested - maybe even just a mouseover hint or something?

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Re: Allow setting recipies on factories before research

Post by Mr_SeBo » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:16 pm

Great Idea! Would allow people to have a headstart. Very smart!

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