Improve co-op Combat and Vehicles

[Escadin]

List of proposed changes

* Improve break force of Tanks
* Combine both Tank Shell/Ammo types (at least for uranium versions)
* Add multipassenger Vehicles



Details
1) Break force
Tanks should either have a better break by default or benefit from the Breakforce Research (have their own version of it worst case). I'd like the tank to allow for faster reactions and sharper control especially when it comes to emergency breaking. At the very least, you should be able to break down to a fully controllable speed in <= 1 second.

Why
You may not have noticed but ever since the introduction of fuel based speed multipliers the tank slides over ground as if it were ice. It feels like I have to mash the "S" button for 10 solid sections in order to perform an emergency break. And while it decelerates comparably fast at first, like half the time is spent going from "slow" to "stop" which feels unrealistic. The result of this are not only annoying controls but also a grave danger for any players and their constructions around you. With all the cluster grenades and robots flying through the air it's already very hard to keep track of which player goes where exactly so somebody driving a tank in a multiplayer scenario poses a great risk and life threat.


2) Tank Shells
I'd like both the piercing and the area damage effect combined in the same shell. Damage can be dealth according to whether the biter is by direct impact or explosion. The shell should try to explode as close to the target area as possible instead of getting blocked by nearby biters.

Why
The choice made here is not very interesting to begin with as it is fairly inconsequential. Both groups and lines of biters are roughly equally common and you can force one or the other with you positioning. It might have been more interesting if you could swap on the go but that's not the case. Anyway, in the context of coop combat HE shells are extremely dangerous because of their friendly fire potential. Especially since there is always a risk in shooting them because they might get stuck and explode too soon - which is relatively hard to predict.
It's just an unecessary risk to have and I don't see what interesting side effects this may add to the game. If it comes down to it - I would rather not use the cannon at all and stick with the machine which has no friendly fire at all AND is also the superior weapon system balance wise.


3) Multipassenger Vehicles
Ever played Borderlands, Unreal Tournament or Battlefield? Then you know exactly what I have in mind: Cars, Tanks, Spiderbots, whatevers that can be occupied by 2 or more players at the same time. Perhaps even give each seat a different job like driver, main cannon, secondary cannon and thus allow vehicles to act in multiple ways at the same time.

Why
This would really give a boost to the co-operation feeling on the combat side of Factorio, which currently is more dangerous than actually rewarding. It would negate the risk of friendly fire, make coordination easier and allow people to pick up friends and move them where they need to go - even if it's just to pick up their corpse far out in the fields.

Thanks for reading.

[Rseding91]

The braking force on the tank is purposefully weak because it makes for a lot of fun mistakes when you ram into things/people.

[eradicator]

+1 Dual-Seated Vehicles. Or at least the nessecary background changes to mod them in . Hm...makes me wonder if it can't already be done with a second teleporting car...*evilgrin*

-------------

The braking force on the tank is purposefully weak because it makes for a lot of fun mistakes when you ram into things/people.

It also makes for a lot of rage with even the slightest lag :/. Are vehicles ever going to get lag hiding ?

[VinWij]

I love the idea of manning a tank with two people, where the main driver controls the tank and the main cannon and the passenger can switch between the guns or flamethrower. This would also allow for larger vehicles or more specialized ones. I remember Unreal Tournament 2k4 where vehicles were a ton of fun to drive together without making them less useful when driving them alone. I'm not suggesting to incorporate those vehicles, but a tank with a rocket-turret, a more armored car with a machinegun and minelayer setup, there are possibilities not that hard.

The thing is, if you implement it in a generic way, so that you can define number of drivers and for each slot what weapon they can control, the modding community can go wild. Dreams... ^_^

[Escadin]

The braking force on the tank is purposefully weak because it makes for a lot of fun mistakes when you ram into things/people.

Don't you think it's a little over the top with rocket fuel?
Also, you have to remember your core playerbase are obsessive perfectionists

the modding community can go wild. Dreams... ^_^

Yeah ^_^

Even just being able to give friends a lift every once in a while would be an improvement for now. Ultimately, this could also make the spidertron (if that is still a thing) more epic.

[Escadin]

1) Break force
Tanks should either have a better break by default or benefit from the Breakforce Research (have their own version of it worst case). I'd like the tank to allow for faster reactions and sharper control especially when it comes to emergency breaking. At the very least, you should be able to break down to a fully controllable speed in <= 1 second.

Why
You may not have noticed but ever since the introduction of fuel based speed multipliers the tank slides over ground as if it were ice. It feels like I have to mash the "S" button for 10 solid sections in order to perform an emergency break. And while it decelerates comparably fast at first, like half the time is spent going from "slow" to "stop" which feels unrealistic. The result of this are not only annoying controls but also a grave danger for any players and their constructions around you. With all the cluster grenades and robots flying through the air it's already very hard to keep track of which player goes where exactly so somebody driving a tank in a multiplayer scenario poses a great risk and life threat.

Is it just me or has this become noticably more relevant with the new map generation and cliffs? And let's not forget nuclear fuel...

Driving a tank through canyons and mountains feels as cumbersome as building 20x20 splitters by hand.

[Aeternus]

Maybe have the Train Braking Force research apply to the other vehicles as well?
Adding it as a research perk gives players the option to keep on skating or put on the brakes.