Forum update to phpBB 3.2

Discussions related to the forums itself. Call for moderators. Trash Posts area.
User avatar
Sanqui
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Sanqui » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm

You can now switch to a wide variant of the forum theme in the board preferences, if you prefer.
ovo

Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3870
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Koub » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Sanqui wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm
You can now switch to a wide variant of the forum theme in the board preferences, if you prefer.
OW yesss ! :) Thanks, amesome !
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1741
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Jap2.0 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:05 am

Sanqui wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm
You can now switch to a wide variant of the forum theme in the board preferences, if you prefer.
Thank you!!!
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6037
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by bobingabout » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:45 am

Sanqui wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm
You can now switch to a wide variant of the forum theme in the board preferences, if you prefer.
Thank you very much for this. Choice is always good.

I will stop complaining now.

EDIT:
I take that back, a lot of pages (topic view, even some control panel pages) are giving me an error message now.
This page isn’t working
forums.factorio.com is currently unable to handle this request.
HTTP ERROR 500
I imagine I'm the first person to mention it because it kinda makes the forum inaccessible unless you left a working tab open.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

User avatar
Deadlock989
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am

Mr. Tact wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 am
We don't print essays in landscape out of tradition/habit. It has nothing to do with the potential of long lines of text.
If you say so. I doubt anyone's given it much thought.

Oh wait

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ749012

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6037
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by bobingabout » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:57 am

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am
Mr. Tact wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 am
We don't print essays in landscape out of tradition/habit. It has nothing to do with the potential of long lines of text.
If you say so. I doubt anyone's given it much thought.

Oh wait

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ749012
I guess I'm just different then.

if I see 5 long lines of text vs 10 lines half the length... I'm more likely to look at and read the 5 long lines, but look at the 10 lines and go "OH MY GOD, TOO MANY LINES OF TEXT, GET IT OUT OF MY FACE!", even though it's the same number of words. And if it was something I really wanted to read, it would take me twice as long to read the 10 lines than the 5.

I call it "Wall of text phobia".
I honestly prefer reading fewer longer lines than more shorter ones.

You might have noticed I often add more line breaks than most people, this is a compensation tactic to try and make it easier to read by reducing the number of lines in a block of text. As you can see, nothing in this post is more than 3 lines long, and if it were the full width of my screen, it would probably only be 2 lines long, much easier for me to parse.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

User avatar
Sanqui
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Sanqui » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:58 am

The 500 errors associated with the secondary themes have been fixed as well, sorry about that.
ovo

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6037
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by bobingabout » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:30 pm

Sanqui wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:58 am
The 500 errors associated with the secondary themes have been fixed as well, sorry about that.
Thank you Sanqui, it seems to work fine now.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

Mr. Tact
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Mr. Tact » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am
Mr. Tact wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 am
We don't print essays in landscape out of tradition/habit. It has nothing to do with the potential of long lines of text.
If you say so. I doubt anyone's given it much thought.

Oh wait

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ749012
Well, if that article is accurate:
1) I guess I am a reading freak
2) I guess they should shrink the width of forum in half since even in the non-wide format a single line contains 150 characters.

That said, I'm glad to have and will use the wide option.
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 7977
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Rseding91 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:04 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am
Mr. Tact wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 am
We don't print essays in landscape out of tradition/habit. It has nothing to do with the potential of long lines of text.
If you say so. I doubt anyone's given it much thought.

Oh wait

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ749012
Dated 2005 when smart phones weren't a thing and everyone was running Windows XP. Thanks but that's essentially useless research with how much monitor sizes have grown over the years.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on IRC and Discord.

User avatar
Deadlock989
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:24 pm

Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:04 pm
Dated 2005 when smart phones weren't a thing and everyone was running Windows XP. Thanks but that's essentially useless research with how much monitor sizes have grown over the years.
You mean like this smartphone I'm using today that's a few inches wide and more inches tall, and this very forum is displayed at about 75 characters per line on? Oh right, one of those.

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 7977
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Rseding91 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:24 pm
Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:04 pm
Dated 2005 when smart phones weren't a thing and everyone was running Windows XP. Thanks but that's essentially useless research with how much monitor sizes have grown over the years.
You mean like this smartphone I'm using today that's a few inches wide and more inches tall, and this very forum is displayed at about 75 characters per line on? Oh right, one of those.
That's my entire point. The popularity of the smart phone means the advice of the article from 2005 doesn't work anymore. You have to scale the content down even more to fit phones. Similarly you have to scale the content up to fit 1080p/1600p/4k displays as to not have > 50% of the display be useless whitespace.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on IRC and Discord.

User avatar
Deadlock989
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:40 pm

You mean like this useless whitespace?

Image

or maybe this useless whitespace?

Image

I'd also add that it wasn't an "article", it's a peer-reviewed literature review. Essentially a summary of many different pieces of work done by a large number of unconnected labs into the effects of line length on eye-tracking and reading comprehension. I'm sure there's more recent work done on it, that was top of my first Google search and I'm not putting more effort into it than that.

While of course individual preferences do vary, there are good reasons why lines of text don't go right across broadsheet newspapers or why War & Peace isn't popular when printed sideways on ticker tape. The medium isn't the relevant issue, it's still eyes doing the reading. Besides which, people may say they have a preference but there's nothing actually stopping their preference being worse, without them realising.

But it's not an issue anyway, now that the screen-spanning width is opt-in. I was just irked by people moaning ungratefully about change, and their outrage at the idea that they might have to resize their browser windows occasionally but being completely fine with everyone else having to do it instead. This forum update is a huge improvement in terms of speed and I like that layout just fine.

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by eradicator » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm
Similarly you have to scale the content up to fit 1080p/1600p/4k displays as to not have > 50% of the display be useless whitespace.
I sure hope your concern for wasted screen space goes into the gui update. All the tiny listboxes with scrollbars (station names, mod names, choose-element dialog, etcpp) could be far easier interacted with if i didn't have to scroll around so much in a dialog that uses less than 20% of my screen.
Author of: Hand Crank Generator, Screenshot Hotkey 2.0
Mod support languages: 日本語, Deutsch, English

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 7977
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Rseding91 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:15 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:40 pm
... I was just irked by people moaning ungratefully about change, and their outrage at the idea that they might have to resize their browser windows occasionally but being completely fine with everyone else having to do it instead. This forum update is a huge improvement in terms of speed and I like that layout just fine.
That was the issue. You couldn't just "resize your browser to be bigger" to make it stretch before. It was locked into the narrow view. You *can* just resize your browser to be narrow when it stretches to the width and it works.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on IRC and Discord.

User avatar
Alice3173
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:35 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Alice3173 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:51 am

Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm
You have to scale the content down even more to fit phones. Similarly you have to scale the content up to fit 1080p/1600p/4k displays as to not have > 50% of the display be useless whitespace.
Usually at those resolutions you also need to upsize the font size anyways. I use a 2560x1440 monitor as my primary monitor and I always need to zoom in on sites to be able to read anything. (Though I admittedly have really atrocious eyesight to begin with.)

Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3870
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Koub » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:32 am

Alice3173 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:51 am
Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm
You have to scale the content down even more to fit phones. Similarly you have to scale the content up to fit 1080p/1600p/4k displays as to not have > 50% of the display be useless whitespace.
Usually at those resolutions you also need to upsize the font size anyways. I use a 2560x1440 monitor as my primary monitor and I always need to zoom in on sites to be able to read anything. (Though I admittedly have really atrocious eyesight to begin with.)
The funny thing is that I usually either let the zoom level as is, or zoom out (for always more content at once on my screen). I admit it's a 27" though, so writing is not too small. Would be trickier on a 24".
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

User avatar
Deadlock989
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Deadlock989 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:56 am

Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:15 pm
That was the issue. You couldn't just "resize your browser to be bigger" to make it stretch before. It was locked into the narrow view. You *can* just resize your browser to be narrow when it stretches to the width and it works.
So the proposal was that I should have to mess about with my browser window size when I flick to this site's tab, and only this site, just to satisfy that proportion of change-resistant people who inexplicably prefer to read crazy-long islands of text within massive tracts of whitespace, despite decades of research suggesting that it's sub-optimal for eye tracking and possibly reading comprehension in general ... Never mind that reddit uses fixed/limited width for its paragraphs, and news websites, and a healthy proportion of blog templates - what do they know? Never mind that phpBB themselves, with their 18 years of experience in developing forum software, chose fixed width as the default option for their own support forum ...

Fortunately the ultra-mega-wide view is now opt-in.

Thanks again to Sanqui for taking the time to update the forums.

Mr. Tact
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by Mr. Tact » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:28 pm

Just breathe Don Quixote, breathe...
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

zOldBulldog
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Today's forum skin update

Post by zOldBulldog » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:17 pm

The update seemed to break the ability to include multiple screenshot per post.

I assume many others already reported it, it is a serious limitation, and it has been some days since I tried it.

Has it been fixed yet?
(not rushing anyone, just asking so I don't waste my time trying, I am able to submit one screenshot per post, but breaking a post into a series of posts is a terrible way to accomplish the task)

Post Reply

Return to “This Forum”