What is worth suggesting to the game

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stann_co
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What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by stann_co »

More often than not when a suggestion is made, someone will link a mod that does the thing suggested, or atleast something similar. This has been counted as a good thing.

Though if a mod already does the thing you're suggesting, would it be better to not have it suggested it in the first place?
How should you go about making it known that this element of a mod, or a whole mod is something you strongly feel should be made part of the base game?
Do the devs actively look at all new mods and make those decisions on their own?

This is some open questions, i'd just like to know before i write more suggestions myself, so i don't waste peoples time. I also have a bit of technical know how so i'm considering getting into modding a few ideas i had myself ( :

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Stringweasel
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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by Stringweasel »

I don't think it's ever wrong to make suggestions, I would even encourage it. Maybe a modder sees your idea and decides to implement it as well.

As long as your friendly about it, and understand that everybody has different ideas about what should be part of vanilla. And ultimately Wube will decide what's should be part of vanilla, as they should.

And they do take ideas from mods. For example you can read this Alt-F4 article about just such cases. However, I don't think it happens that often anymore, if at all. Factorio is quite mature and stable, so they won't likely add many more features or ideas. Except of course the expansion, but that's a different story :)

Tertius
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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by Tertius »

Reading through suggestions give an impression how players see the game and what players like to see in a game. It's like a mod, only without actually doing it as mod, because it's perhaps more difficult or the player lacks the skill and energy to create a mod himself.
It also happens that people are unable to express themselves in detail. They have an idea, but cannot flesh it out. Others pick up an idea and are able to flesh it out in a discussion.
The developers can use all this as inspiration and as indication what players find interesting.

However, some people forget the core of the game and want some radical changes that don't fit the original goals set by the developers.
And people often forget that good ideas are only good ideas if they can actually be implemented in a game. Most ideas simply cannot be implemented, because the have side effects that only surface if you start thinking about the details.

But without giving any suggestions, no one can be inspired by them, and nobody will ever know there are other people with similar ideas. So don't hesitate to make your own suggestion.

As far as I see it, the developers probably look into every mod and look what it does. Perhaps they don't install and test each and every mod, but I'm quite sure they browse every new mod and look for what stuff the creator spent many hours to create that mod.
And if a mod already exists, why should that be implemented in the core game? If you want the content, just install the mod. I guess developers rather look for original ideas to add to the game, not re-implement features from mods. Only if a mod adds essential functionality that everyone should be able to use, it's a candidate for re-implementation in the base game.
The developers themselves also don't all have the same vision about the game. They all have their own ideas. You can see this from mods created by the developers themselves.

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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by Koub »

The first thing is that many people are just happy with a mod if it allows them to enjoy the game more. Mod suggestions will often be in the early answers on a suggestion.

Second, the answer to the question "should modded features be included into the base game ?" is subjective. My opinion is that for a mod to be somehow integrated into vanilla :
1) The feature should blend nicely into vanilla.
2) The feature should be straightforward, and considered beneficial to all (or at least to most). If it only suits a certain specific playstyle, it lowers the probability a suggestion is added in vanilla.
3) It should not degrade the performance : one of the signature features of the game is the ability to build big even on a half-potatoe half-toaster computer. The devs are very committed on that part.
4) At least some of the devs need to be convinced by the feature. Some suggestions have remained for years until a dev realized the game lacked that feature and implemented it.

Last : there is a last consideration : mods break Steam achievements. If the devs think a feature should be enjoyed without breaking Steam achievements, it might be an additional point for the implementation into vanilla (personal speculation here).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

Tertius
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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by Tertius »

Koub wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:38 pm
mods break Steam achievements.
Let them go. If a silly badge is more important than your enjoyment of the game, you should adjust your views in my opinion.

Yes, I also hesitated to install mods (this started with Skyrim, and continues to Factorio) just because of the achievements, but mods add so much QoL in detail, I never reget I just let the achievements go. Skyrim with its UI, Factorio with some of the UI annoyances (zoom on widescreen monitor; moving existing entities around). For me, mods remove usability annoyances. I don't need big overhauls and additions, I use mods to remove annoyances.

By the way, is there a thread where game annoyances are collected and discussed? I didn't find any recent. Seeing 1.2 on the distant horizon, it might be possible to help the developers rethink a few of their usability design views.

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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by quyxkh »

stann_co wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:36 am
if a mod already does the thing you're suggesting, would it be better to not have it suggested it in the first place?
There's just wayyyyy too many mods for anyone to page through them all, if the "downloads" and "trending" sorts on the mod install page don't bring you joy, I'd say absolutely, ask here, that's what forums/discord/reddit/whatever are for.

There's two questions about something that would please you: can you already make the game do that?, and would the vast majority of people be happier if the game did that?

If you know a mod will do what you want, then the relevant question is that second one, and there's no accounting for taste: people either know about the mod and already use it or they don't and they'll be glad to hear about it. If you *dont* know a mod that will do what you want, then of course it's best to suggest what you're after, that's how you hear about mods that do what you want.

But if you think you're going to persuade people that they "should" want something through the power of your rhetoric or the fervency of your personal rightness and desire, or whatever, uhh, well, I'd say you've got another think coming.

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Re: What is worth suggesting to the game

Post by Koub »

Tertius wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:45 pm
Koub wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:38 pm
mods break Steam achievements.
Let them go. If a silly badge is more important than your enjoyment of the game, you should adjust your views in my opinion.
One can't command what one finds enjoyable. Some people prefer their spaghetti broken in half, and cooked for 15 minutes, with ketchup, some people like ham and pineapple pizza, some others their hamburgers with mayonnaise, or chorizo in their paella, and some even like their cheese pasteurized and stored in the fridge (those heretics should be burnt with cleansing fire, but I digress). Same goes with the urge to unlock badges.
I prefer when games don't have achievements (whether ingame or on Steam), but when there are, I find it extremely challenging to ignore the call of completionism.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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