0.15 - plans?

[mcwaffles2003]

" Do we even need my barrelling mechanic any more?"

maybe not for liquids, but gasses in barrels seems silly

[jona5]

i am also in for keeping your barrels/canisters/bottles.

they add some sane complexity (i like that) and make "gas station"-train stops actually a bit easier to manage when you want to fine-tune the production to be exact on point.

thanks for your hard work!

[bobingabout]

" Do we even need my barrelling mechanic any more?"

maybe not for liquids, but gasses in barrels seems silly

Gasses in barrels might seem silly, but they're automatically created by the base game, and I don't think there's a way to tell it not to.

I MIGHT re-visit this after mods are updated and working.

[obuw]

I'd be in favor of just keeping the vanilla barreling system tbh, since it's less work for you, and it's just simple and clean.

It's not hard to imagine the gases going through the pipes and into the barrels as cooled to liquid form (e.g. liquid oxygen barrel). The in-game graphics in the pipes also look like liquids so there's that to consider as well...

[bobingabout]

I'd be in favor of just keeping the vanilla barreling system tbh, since it's less work for you, and it's just simple and clean.

It's not hard to imagine the gases going through the pipes and into the barrels as cooled to liquid form (e.g. liquid oxygen barrel). The in-game graphics in the pipes also look like liquids so there's that to consider as well...

Liquid gasses... Liquid Nitrogen, touch the barrel and your hand gets frozen to it!

Even more dangerous... Barrelled Nitro Glycerine!

[obuw]

Well, you can also happily carry around uranium ore, not to mention hundreds of mining drills / assembling machines on you.

I'd imagine that the barrels used for stuff like nitroglycerine have the appropriate precautions (isolated compartments, etc) built in. Just an in-game abstraction of how it would actually work, leaving the rest to the imagination.

[Alxandr]

Add factorissimo and the stuff you can carry around goes from ridiculous to literally "I have the world in my pockets".

[timer67]

I guess barrelling everything is easier on us as players than making the machine need canisters as well as barrels (dependent on what you need to pump anyway).

[SpeedDaemon]

Bob: I hope you find a way to make nuclear more convoluted... Because from what I've seen, the entire process looks trivialized.

OK, you've successfully nerd-sniped me.

One thing to make nuclear more convoluted: require fuel rods to have proper Zircalloy casing. Zircalloy is an alloy of Zr, with a few % of Sn (and sometimes niobium, but not always, so lets ignore it).

Happily, Zr is a byproduct of rutile processing, so there wouldn't have to be another ore added to map gen. You'd have:
rutile -> Magnetic Separation process (in chem plant or assembler) -> rutile + some amount of zircon. (well, not exactly - have to do something to keep from having an infinite loop of rutile)
Alternatively, just get both from the same ore patch, like Ni/Pb

Then you need Zr metal:
zircon -> Electrolyzer (preferably +Mg, which we don't have...) -> Commercial grade Zr

"normal" Zr metal has a small amount of hafnium in it that's fine for most things, but absorbs too many neutrons to work in a reactor, so that has to be removed. This is often achieved by dissolving the Hf in methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK). MIBK is made from acetone, which is processed and hydrogenated. So:
Commercial grade Zr + acetone + H2 -> Chem plant -> Nuclear grade Zr

Of course, now we need acetone... Simplifying a bit:
Petro gas + O2 -> Chem plant -> acetone

Finally,
Nuclear grade Zr + Sn -> alloy furnace -> Zircalloy plate

Additionally, maybe modify things to require a closed steam loop

[TheTom]

Not sure I would go that way- that is just more complex input.

What about more complex processing? Something that blows up the chain to recycle burned out fuel cells, something that really "needs" to be controlled via combinators to be effective?

[purdueme91]

Are you planning on having mine-able sulfur again? My last playthrough with Space Ex + Bobs+ alien crafting was a nightmare because artifacts required sulfur and only way to get it was from oil processing (ended up switching to a different alien mod. 200k purple science + all the colored artifacts was too much to handle). Don't think sulfuric acid is going increase too much with uranium processing. Just wondering how much of a role it will play in your recipes.

BTW, keep up the great work. Vanilla is too simple once you've experienced Bob's.

[bobingabout]

Are you planning on having mine-able sulfur again? My last playthrough with Space Ex + Bobs+ alien crafting was a nightmare because artifacts required sulfur and only way to get it was from oil processing (ended up switching to a different alien mod. 200k purple science + all the colored artifacts was too much to handle). Don't think sulfuric acid is going increase too much with uranium processing. Just wondering how much of a role it will play in your recipes.

BTW, keep up the great work. Vanilla is too simple once you've experienced Bob's.

It's already there. Check the Options -> Mods section of the game menu.

[bobingabout]

Okay, I've been thinking about the barreling situation.

I know some of you will have already tried loading your old games with the current mods and ended up losing the water pump Barreling facillity, and things like hydrogen canisters. I'm sorry about that, but, the new plan is as follows.

Step 1: add a migration for the conisters, bottles etc to the new barrel entities, there's no reason why they should be just deleted.
Step 2: Create a new barreling facillity based on the old water pump.
Step 3: Migrate both the air compressor and water pump to this new barreling facillity
Step 4: dynamically change the crafting category of all barreling recipes to use the new facillity, also probably add the category to the assembling machine too as not to break people who add the mod to the base game already using barreling assembling machines.

The air compressor should remain in game, or remade to be resized to 1x1 to only create compressed air. I will likely use the old small pump as the air compressor graphic.


Opinions on this?

[Mobius1]

I support those ideas, also making the barreler a 2x2 machine would allow imense high throughput builds which "me likes it "

[obuw]

I just learned that in 0.15 water becomes steam when heated. I wonder if you can barrel steam? If yes, does it become water when barreled? (I haven't actually played 0.15 yet).

This just gave me a crazy idea; Perhaps you can make use of this functionality somehow and make it so you need to cool down the gases before you can barrel them? Or having them heat up to gas form after unbarreling before they can be used?

[bobingabout]

I just learned that in 0.15 water becomes steam when heated. I wonder if you can barrel steam? If yes, does it become water when barreled? (I haven't actually played 0.15 yet).

This just gave me a crazy idea; Perhaps you can make use of this functionality somehow and make it so you need to cool down the gases before you can barrel them? Or having them heat up to gas form after unbarreling before they can be used?

I haven't tested this, but Steam (currently) is an altered state of water when it rises above a certain temperature. my guess would be that when you barrel it that it becomes water.

[porcupine]

I just learned that in 0.15 water becomes steam when heated. I wonder if you can barrel steam? If yes, does it become water when barreled? (I haven't actually played 0.15 yet).

This just gave me a crazy idea; Perhaps you can make use of this functionality somehow and make it so you need to cool down the gases before you can barrel them? Or having them heat up to gas form after unbarreling before they can be used?

No issues with the general idea, but think about that for a second. Having to barrel, then un-barrel a product to use it? Doesn't make much sense.

If you were going to do something like that, you'd expect a chiller + cooling tower, to condense gasses down the liquids or what have you (and then barrel the liquid if you so desired). Liquid back (barrels) to gas [might] not require anything, and would be a direct conversion you would assume.. Only catch there is obviously you need a trigger/something to indicate when to swap back to gas (unless you want it to happen naturally if the pressure/volume/etc. falls too low... at which point I think it'd get unreasonably complicated to setup heh.

[obuw]

I think you misunderstood. You wouldn't need to barrel & unbarrel to use a product. For instance, if you create oxygen, it's already in gas form, and can be used in recipes. If you barrel it, it becomes liquid oxygen (since that part seems to be automatic?). Then when you unbarrel it, it starts as liquid oxygen, at say, -200 °C, and once it reaches -183 °C it becomes gas again. But since stuff in containers stay the same temperature (unless it changed in 0.15?), you'd need to heat it manually to get it to gas state.

But of course I have no idea if the game supports setting different boiling points for liquids, or even negative temperatures at all. It'd probably just be an unnecessary complication without the ability to automate it (the circuit network would need to be able to read temperature).

[bobingabout]

fairly sure the temperature is just discarded when it is barrelled, so when unbarrelled it returns to default temperature. Oxygen would still be oxygen, but steam would turn into water.

[dauphin]

I'll just randomly chime in here and say I'd really like to see support re-added for a small barrelling entity. I'm an unapologetic logistics-bot-abuser, and my 0.14 saves had massive oil processing facilities that relied on inline barreling and unbarrelling in the 2x1 pumps with a bare minimum of pipes, so that all liquid transport beyond about 4 tiles went through the logistics network. It made for virtually unlimited throughput, as well as being virtually infinitely tileable. And everything fit in between two rows of beacons. I'm very happy that vanilla rectifies the issue of not being able to barrel other fluids, but having to put them through a (relatively huge) assembler leaves me cold.

I'd even like to suggest that perhaps the smaller barreling entities (i.e. not-vanilla-assemblers) could be somewhat later-game (call them 'micro pumps'!), so that the super compact designs would have to wait until later in the game anyway. But that's a minor request.

Anyway, keep up the good work!