[0.12.x][v0.12.1] Bob's Greenhouse mod

[sparr]

one note on the use of stock sprites: add some tint! even if you don't want to draw a new sprite or package up a png, you can color the existing sprite a bit to make it distinct.

[bobingabout]

Actually, I did use a unique sprite sheet for it that I made from the lab, it just looks too much like the lab I guess. Perhaps I could try put some tint in it on PSP.

[TheSAguy]

I did not even know you did this mod. Don't spend time here, there are enough tree farming mods!
You're welcome to use the Bio Farm graphic, if you re-size it to 3x3 or here is a nice replacement to the lab graphic. Done by eeevil.

P.S Tree Far mod has had a few changes recently to align more with Bob's and will have even more once 0.13 comes out.

[bobingabout]

That's not a bad greenhouse lab edit. Thanks for the offer, I'll have a look at it some time.

[alficles]

This is a natural module for your full suite. I particularly like the dynamic of needing to separate out wood from seedlings. There are some neat problem-solving areas there that aren't present in the base game.

With the addition of wood, however, it's got me thinking... what else can one do with it? There's a mod out there that adds an assembly recipe to convert wood to coal. The idea is good, but it an assembly machine isn't the right spot for it. I'm not sure if this or MCI is the right spot for it, but the ability to convert wood into coal (and probably in short order into carbon) would open some cool options for a “renewable” base. Should probably be 4 wood to each coal at least, for a 50% efficiency on the conversion, plus the energy to run the machines.

Adding a new item “charcoal” would work, too, but then you'd have to duplicate recipes all over the place and figure out where each one applies. (Charcoal for fuel is great, for example, but might be odd in terms of cracking to heavy oil.) I think oddities are ok as long as the conversion isn't too efficient.

That said, I think the greenhouses might put out too much wood. Right now, each greenhouse produces an average of 15 wood/30s. Each wood burns in a vanilla boiler for 2 MJ of usable energy. (With the super-efficient boilers/engines, this gets even more over the top.) That means that the greenhouses are producing 1 MW of usable energy each, before you add fancy stuff like fertilizer, efficient boilers and engines. Now, it takes a bit of energy out as well, because you're spending 25kW on the greenhouse and a bit on the inserters, and probably a bit on an assembler for getting seedlings that several greenhouses share.

But all told, a bog-standard tree farm will outproduce even the highest-end solar tech in a much smaller space. That's 100% fine, because it comes with a pollution and management issue. Later, managing throughput on a lightweight fuel matters as well. (That's part of why I think refining it to coal would be helpful. It lets a player “condense” it for transport, at the const of efficiency. Interesting choices make good gameplay.)

You could probably cut the wood production in half and still have the greenhouses be quite valuable. 15 wood every 60s would be a usable power output of 500 kW. Adding fertilizer could then double that to 1 MW. (It currently doubles it to 2MW.)

Consider also increasing the power usage of the greenhouse itself. Even at 250kW (10 times it's current cost), it would produce a net of ~200 kW worth of green power (more than a top-end solar array of a similar size, for almost zero technology invested). This would also increase the value of boiler/engine upgrades and make fertilizer even more attractive (as it would increase the yield, but on the same number of greenhouses).

Module slots (possibly in an upgraded greenhouse, if you wanted to go there), would provide an interesting experience as well.

As it stands, the Greenhouse appears to have been created mostly as a cheap way to get a lot of wood for circuit production, but wound up being rather OP for energy production. It starts in a pretty good spot for where it might should end, after tech upgrades. I love that Bob's makes steam viable throughout, but perhaps a bit too viable.

[bobingabout]

Although it might seem a little OP for power production, keep in mind that unlike hydrogen, you're not expending energy to a fuel to burn to create energy, instead you're basically allowing a natural process to happen in an idealised environment. If you use that for fuel, well, that's your choice.

I am not however opposed to making it consume more power, or even making the recipe take longer to process, as long as it is balanced, however, I'm not going to rebalance it purely on the same principles of why I rebalanced hydrogen, because you're not actually getting something from nothing like you were there.

Also, note: Although the recipe says 30 seconds, the "crafting speed" of the greenhouse is 0.75, so it actually takes 40 seconds for the recipe to cycle.

[alficles]

Oh, certainly. I've no complaint about producing power from nothing. A greenhouse is, in large part, a very fancy solar array.

I also have no problem with it well outstripping solar arrays (and indeed it should) because it produces lots and lots of pollution to burn it. I was just observing that it produces an awful lot of power at the most basic level. Lots of power after lots of tech is fine, but there should probably be a progression.

[sporefreak]

With the addition of wood, however, it's got me thinking... what else can one do with it? There's a mod out there that adds an assembly recipe to convert wood to coal. The idea is good, but it an assembly machine isn't the right spot for it. I'm not sure if this or MCI is the right spot for it, but the ability to convert wood into coal (and probably in short order into carbon) would open some cool options for a “renewable” base. Should probably be 4 wood to each coal at least, for a 50% efficiency on the conversion, plus the energy to run the machines.

Adding a new item “charcoal” would work, too, but then you'd have to duplicate recipes all over the place and figure out where each one applies. (Charcoal for fuel is great, for example, but might be odd in terms of cracking to heavy oil.) I think oddities are ok as long as the conversion isn't too efficient.

I made a mod to compliment bobs greenhouse (or any tree farm mod really)
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=26470
You should check it out. lets you make coal and charcoal with realistic processes (It really needs more balancing, Bob if you wanna help me balance it to work with your mod much better that would be amazing)
Takes about 11.25 wood per coal... but that might change (Coal is made from COMPRESSED peat(Which is made from COMPRESSED wood))
The creation of coal is supposed to be for end game recipes requiring coal, which is why it adds charcoal for fueling (less efficient than coal)

[XBBX]

I have cool idea maby you can make your green house consume less power at day time and more at night because trees to grow need light at day time you have plenty sun light but at night you need turn on lights

[alficles]

I have cool idea maby you can make your green house consume less power at day time and more at night because trees to grow need light at day time you have plenty sun light but at night you need turn on lights

I'm not sure the existing mod API makes this easy. And I think it's ok to handwave some batteries into the greenhouse to even out the power flow.

[sporefreak]

I have cool idea maby you can make your green house consume less power at day time and more at night because trees to grow need light at day time you have plenty sun light but at night you need turn on lights

I'm not sure the existing mod API makes this easy. And I think it's ok to handwave some batteries into the greenhouse to even out the power flow.

Just make a invisible solar panel that produces energy...?

[CMH]

I like the fact there's no treefarm in all your mods, so please keep this separate

[Aonova]

I'm a big fan of Bobs mod, and think greenhouse supplements it well. That being said, there is the issue of lacklustre graphics. In case anyone cares, I uploaded a personally modified "greenhouse.png". One could just drag and drop it in the "graphics/entity/" folder of the greenhouse mod and it fits exactly.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing


Also made some "working" graphics in case bobbingabout ever implements a dynamic animation for the greenhouse.


Anyways, keep being awesome all.

[bobingabout]

It looks interesting, I might consider using that.

[iamwyza]

I am not a graphic artist, but I would almost think it'd be nice to have it look like the "traditional" style green house when you think of one.

Either the angled style: http://www.hallsgreenhouses.co.uk/datab ... iginal.jpg
or the rounded: https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... O22_sCCB24

[sporefreak]

I don't see what's wrong with a Biosphere, looks Futuristic while still fitting the game and having a familiar look. I love the above graphics by Aonova!

[bobingabout]

the problem with using a greenhouse graphic is either drawing, or finding one. I used the lab originally because I couldn't find one, I've now used the one provided by Aonova.

However, I didn't use the active animation because it had a tendancy of being drawn over the pipe connections layer.

[SpeedDaemon]

Hi Bob, would you consider adding a token fuel value for the saplings? That would allow any excess to be easily disposed of by fire.

Maybe just enough that a burner inserter that picks one up when first placed will have just enough power to grab a new piece of fuel.

[bobingabout]

Hi Bob, would you consider adding a token fuel value for the saplings? That would allow any excess to be easily disposed of by fire.

Maybe just enough that a burner inserter that picks one up when first placed will have just enough power to grab a new piece of fuel.

I thought I did.
I'll look at it.

[madtulip]

I have the impression that the Greenhouse is an extremely strong Factory putting Oil Coal and thus energy management out of balance.

In an earlier game (0.12) with all of Bobs mods apart from the Greenhouse (not developed at that point), Oil was a critical always short resource for Resin and Synthetic wood next to other things. Production of Oil using Coal motivated to switch energy production to solar panels and smelting processes to use that solar power. With the Greenhouse all of those considerations become unnecessary. Wood as source for resin, wooden boards and energy comes at no cost apart from space and its available right from the start.

There is ofc the option to just not use the mod, which we will. I just wanted to point this out to revise if this could be somehow changed or re balanced.