[0.12.2X] Bob's Harder Endgame Mod *ALPHA*

[SkyFyre42]

New Info (11/26):
Hey everyone! thanks for the awesome replies!
I kinda let this project die over the summer (as did my interest in factorio), but my love for it is back it full force! Glad some people got some use out of it in my absence at least haha.
I'll be looking into what I need to do to bring this up to speed with 14.x, current bob's, and the new mod system. Stay tuned for updates!

P.S. -Anyone still using this at all by any chance and has a more-current/working-ish file for me to go off of? Cuz that would be dope XD

Old Info:
v0.0.1 now available for download! It is happening people
Read the thread for most recent notes/questions/etc, hasn't gotten too long yet. Help make it what you want!
Will make this main post more detailed and list the changes once things become a bit more solid.
For now, pretty easy to tell from the code what is going on ^^

Original Post:
Hey everyone! New here, hope I am posting in the right place.

I just finished my first play-through with bob's, and ended up pretty bummed once I reached the endgame. I spent so much time building a rail line to tungsten and developed production lines for literally everything to realize... the rocket recipe is still the same as vanilla!
This was incredibly disappointing to find out. So I wonder, does anyone know of a mod that makes the endgame silo and rocket build require endgame circuits/metal/gems/etc? I don't wanna be able to escape unless I have thousands of diamonds and tungsten alloy bars for example

If not, I will be making a small mod to do this. Anyone interested or have any suggestions/guidance on how to go about this the easiest way? I am a programmer, but not in lua ^^
Was thinking of using some other recipe modifying mod as example code, a good reference for this that uses MIT would be nice as well XD

[Supercheese]

While it doesn't modify the rocket parts themselves, my Orbital Ion Cannon mod does require lots of exotic Bob's Mods components if you play with Bob's mods. Diamonds are required, for example, through the Laser Turret Mk5 chain.

[SkyFyre42]

Already have your orbital ion and spy satellite mods installed to somewhat achieve a harder endgame, thank you very much for them ^^
Still would like to be able to modify the actual silo and rocket part recipes though...

Also will be changing the rocket silo tech to require gems and tungsten processing since I want them to be needed for the satellite / rocket production. Also highest tier accumulators for initial satellite, along with other changes for difficulty and utilization of the entire tech tree. Makes no sense to me that the rocket ammo and your best armor require tungsten but the rocket into space just needs vanilla materials XD

[SkyFyre42]

Ok, I am now convinced no one else has gone through with making a bob's mod like I am proposing... So I will be writing it ^^
Already have the silo recipe updating as well as technology to unlock silo.

Proposed names: BobSiloTweaks or BobsHarderEndgame
Any preferences or ideas for name from anyone?

Proposed Changes:

-Silo tech now requires tungsten-alloy processing
-Silo recipe replace steel->tungsten, circuits->multilayer, pipe->(plastic?tungsten?ceramic?) pipe
-Low density replace steel->(tung-copper?something lightweight in real life?), copper->brass
-control unit replace speed module 1 with module 6/7/ or 8 and maybe add other module types
-rocket fuel add to recipe liquid fuel x10 (solid/liquid mix now for different rocket phases)
-Satellite replace accumulator with high cap tier 3 accum, add fast and slow accums maybe as well. replace solar panel with tier 3 small panels (small ones seem to make sense for a satellite idk).
-etc...

TL;DR - most materials for rocket build get replaced with higher tier equivs
Let me know if there are any ideas or special requests for this ^^

[bobingabout]

I think the main reason why I haven't done this yet is because of the following reasons.

With few exceptions, my mods Tack things into the existing game, trying not to edit them too much, mostly for the compatibility with other mods.
Some of the exceptions include tweaks to research (Which I Had to do in a roundabout way, because it would often cause crashes with other mods. This roundabout way was done with functions, which ended up being replicated over and over in multiple mods, hence the need to centralise my functions in a library mod), the electronics mod is a replacement mod (The current electronics mod is a merge of my electronics from the old MCI (Originally in the intermediates mod, which was merged into Metals and Chemicals, to form what is now known as Metals, Chemicals and Intermediates, AKA, MCI), with the old Bob's Electronics overrides mod. The old MCI added my versions of electronics which were only used in my recipes, used alongside the base game electronics. The old electronics override mod made it so base game recipes used my electronics too. Meaning with the new electronics mod you either have my electronics for everything, or don't have them at all and keep the base game electronics), and modules (The mod replaces the base game modules with my own, and expands on them, as well as adding complex research)

One of the things I have planned, but haven't started yet is Bob's Overhaul mod. This one would be the first designed not to add new content, but to replace existing recipes with things from my mod. Or just some changes that I think make more sense, like plastics requiring heavy oil, instead of petroleum gas (RL plastics are usually made from the heavier elements of crude oils that can't be used to make fuels or lubricants), and Lubricant requiring light oil instead of heavy oil (RL Lubricants can be anything from really thick things like Bearing grease, down to really thin things like WD40, So since my mod is heavily focused on the heavy oil side, moving lubricants down to light oil makes sense). I just need to find more uses for Petroleum gas! (If not remove it completely, I mean, I probably wouldn't want to make sulfur from the stuff either)

Some other things that are already replaced like the battery requiring lead plates (I think it's in bobplaces/MCI that also adds batteries MK2 (Li-Ion) and MK3 (Silver Oxide), Effectively turning it into a lead-acid battery, like you find in cars) would likely be shifted to the overhaul mod instead too.


Anyway, I'm not saying you shouldn't make your endgame mod as an extension for my mods, I'm just pointing out why I haven't yet.

(I probably should try to get back into modding and program these things.
although my work situation isn't improving, it likely won't unless I quit, it has been 5 months, I am over the emotional shock the changes caused that forced me to stop, so nothing is technically keeping me from modding anymore other than trying to find the time, and motivation.)

[SkyFyre42]

Thanks for the response bobingabout! I was hoping some more recipe changes were somewhere in your plans ^^

Strangely enough I have also had some work issues (including overwork) as many coders do, and most of my android game dev projects have fallen to the wayside. This seems like a small easy thing in comparison though and like I said, it really bummed me out not needing what I had gathered XD Hopefully you can get back into modding soon! I'll forge ahead with this mini project at least until you do so.

As a starter back into the factorio modding world, have any suggestions for recipes for the items I mentioned? Maybe you can even use my code to copy-paste some of the changes to your overhaul mod and this can hopefully then be discontinued if similar enough ^^ Trying to make it semi-realistic at least with regards to recipe contents and in tune with the rest of your mods ingredient costs.

Not really trying to tack much extra on here... and bob's does already edit vanilla recipes in a few places like you said.... so not sure if I understand the main point of your first paragraph? Are you suggesting I not change any vanilla tech's prereqs? I figured since you have configs for the few changed recipes, one more could be added for "bobs rocket and silo recipes" or some similar name, is that incorrect? Plus if it is a different mod like your overhaul or my endgame, it is able to be disabled in whole already right? Or just mainly that your overhaul mod plans to change a great deal more of the vanilla recipes already, including the end game rocket? Sorry for the question storm, feel free to answer only the ones you feel important haha XD

I am assuming people are using pretty much every single one of your mods and requiring them all as dependencies btw. This is intended for bob fanatics after all

Edit: to solve the upcoming petroleum problem and help people adjust, I will be switching plastic recipe to heavy oil like you suggest and making the liquid fuel use petroleum - because that makes sense right? haha
Liquid fuel will now actually be truly needed and useful because it will be a required component in rocket fuel as I said above. Possibly considering some other kind of liquid/gas fuel mixture like real liquid rocket fuel, but that would require adding an entirely new resource possibly which is out of scope for this mod.
I would suggest doing so for your overhaul mod though - maybe LOX+kerosene/hydrogen like I see listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_ro ... urrent_use

[SkyFyre42]

Anyone interested in trying 0.0.1? Have it done-ish but not fully debugged ^^ Also still deciding on a better name for it if anyone has any ideas...
It hopefully checks if raw speed modules are enabled (think it is broken though - help fixing would be awesome!), as well as if extra chest radars are available (this is working I think).
Fair warning: This is my first attempt at a mod, not to mention a total hack job relying mostly on other's efforts. That being said, enjoy!

[Supercheese]

Anyone interested in trying 0.0.1? Have it done-ish but not fully debugged ^^ Also still deciding on a better name for it if anyone has any ideas...
It hopefully checks if raw speed modules are enabled (think it is broken though - help fixing would be awesome!), as well as if extra chest radars are available (this is working I think).
Fair warning: This is my first attempt at a mod, not to mention a total hack job relying mostly on other's efforts. That being said, enjoy!

I approve of these changes (although I'm not able to test it just yet, I only looked at the code).

[SkyFyre42]

Haha, reading the code is plenty XD Glad you like what you see so far!
Did you enjoy my justifications / horrible puns?

Notes so far:
-How to incorporate diamonds without adding any new items? (what recipe to change?)
-Should I get over my laziness and add a few more endgame items required for liftoff? (intermediate products most likely, for example a liquid fuel mix step before rocket fuel)
-Should require mk8 or just mk6 speed/effect/raw modules? Using mk6
-Have fun building rocket fuel now hehe... it is quite the setup in my factory, in a good way though xD
-I think the advanced proc demand might be a little OP... Should I go back to regular procs for one of the recipes?
-Still can't figure out why my if/then works for the EC radar but not the bob raw speed module... someone tell me why I'm dumb XD
-I highly recommend everyone use ExtraChests with this. The extra inserters, high tier radar, and new graphics really make bobs mods shine even more ^^ (big fan of EC tbh, great mod for bobs. hope he includes some parts of it in his some day soon, like the color scheme)
-I highly recommend everyone use Orbital Ion Cannon as well. The Ion Cannon recipe also nicely scales into the endgame with a recipe for bobs, and I am considering making it just a bit (or maybe a lot) more expensive ^^ Plus I mean... destruction from space is just too awesome to pass up Blast those Bugs from Space!

Edit: I now realize the author of the epicness that is OIC is who I am responding to. Jaws dropped. Dreams were achieved. Teach me senpai! XD

[Supercheese]

I do use ExtraChests, it's great stuff.

You can require diamonds if you go for Mk8 modules. Might be a bit too steep of a cost though.

I do think that Satellites need their own Rocket Fuel because they have to have some reaction mass to make positional adjustments with thrusters.

Feel free to have an option to make the Ion Cannon recipe even more expensive; perhaps requiring twice as many Laser Turrets (or more). It is a very powerful weapon, after all, and should be extremely expensive.

[SkyFyre42]

I figured you did, saw you had a bit of code in there to use their radars as well ^^ Hoping more people use them both though!

Sticking with mk6. Still wanna use diamonds though... I keep thinking of some kind of heat shielding or superior electrical insulator or something.... But all require new items XD

I will add fuel back to satellites. However, I think I will make it different from the rocket fuel. Will probably use the same thing I am using for the verniers (small adjustment engines) in the main rocket recipe and maybe one more chemical that is usually mixed with it for that effect.

Do you know if I can still use bob's library mod to edit other recipes like your cannon? Or is there a better way I need to be learning to do all this?

Managed to fully break all my silos by trying to change the rocket part recipe... They just show a list of choices but all are red, no rocket part to be found haha. The entities are stuck broken too had to reverse my change AND make a new one to get a working silo again... back at 0% DX
Anyone know if changing that recipe is possible without ending the world? lol

[bobingabout]

not sure if I understand the main point of your first paragraph? Are you suggesting I not change any vanilla tech's prereqs?

I think the main issue with the tech overrides is when you try and remove or add new science packs, if another mod tries to do the same thing, it causes an error (Because you're trying to remove a pack that doesn't exist, or end up with one added on twice, which it doesn't like)

So if you do try and adjust those, look at how I did it, and do the same (I use a function in my library mod called in the data updates phase. typically, it searches and removes, replaces, or adds an item to the listed technology's research ingredients list, including what to do if the item does/doesn't exist)

[Requia]

like plastics requiring heavy oil, instead of petroleum gas (RL plastics are usually made from the heavier elements of crude oils that can't be used to make fuels or lubricants)

PVC(vinyl) and polyethylene are two of the most common plastics and made from ethene (The molecule shown on the icon). Though I do agree with getting sulphur from heavier oils. Also you could make this more complicated, Ethylene+chlorine->Vinyl Chloride-->Plastic (I have no idea why the game uses coal really?).

[bman212121]

I definitely like the idea of changing up the requirements of the rocket silo. To me it's kind of the equivalent of the "Wonder" from AoE. It should take an insane amount of resources, a ton of time, and be a big target for the opposition. I think for us when we finally get around to building the rocket silo we already have so much production and resources you can just click build, and you'll have everything done in no time. It would be an interesting dynamic if you had to run your production at full tilt for a period of time to generate all of the required resources, while attracting more attention from the aliens.

I think it would be interesting if you could possibly change the pollution output of the rocket silo, so that once that part is done, it severely increases the pollution on the map. This would trigger a lot more alien activity coming to try to destroy the rocket silo, or at least try to over run you while you're busy running full scale factory production and mining. Obviously it would make more sense in reality that the pollution is triggered while the rocket lifts off into space, but for game play reasons you can say it's in anticipation of the amount of pollution the rocket will generate. And maybe it can continue to increase with each percentage that you complete on the silo, but that may be too difficult to figure out how to do.

The actual amount of resources could possibly be scaled up a bit as well, but I don't know how difficult that would make it for players with really low map resources. It might already be difficult enough if you don't have large quantities. Obviously you wouldn't want it to be crazy hard, but it seems like it could use a boost to make it more involved rather than just another item you check off the list. To me it should be something you have to prepare for because once you start building it, you might get overwhelmed, have it destroyed, and have to try again.

Looking forward to check it out to see how it works with the new requirements though. It does make a lot more sense to use the higher tier Bob's components so they have more uses.

[seronis]

I think it would be interesting if you could possibly change the pollution output of the rocket silo, so that once that part is done, it severely increases the pollution on the map. This would trigger a lot more alien activity coming to try to destroy the rocket silo, or at least try to over run you while you're busy running full scale factory production and mining. Obviously it would make more sense in reality that the pollution is triggered while the rocket lifts off into space, but for game play reasons you can say it's in anticipation of the amount of pollution the rocket will generate. And maybe it can continue to increase with each percentage that you complete on the silo, but that may be too difficult to figure out how to do.

This kind of thing is nonsensical enough that I would never use the mod. The pollution you generate from the factories constructing the ingredients is where the pollution already is accounted for.

[func_door]

I dig the changes you've made, but the mod has some errors with mods that look at recipes during data-final-fixes (recycling type mods in my case). Since your mod already has a dependency on all of bobs, I changed bobHarderEndgame data-final-fixes.lua to data-updates.lua and now it runs with less problems. (you can always check load order in factorio-current.log) Perhaps something to consider for next release. Good work on the mod so far, I'm including it in my regular list

[hegemontree]

Ideas for the new low density materials. Carbon Fiber and Highly refined Titanium are the two of best materials for strength to weight. Also IRL both are made from common materials, but require complex processing steps.

Carbon Fiber
-Plastic
-Carbon Nanotubes

Carbon Nanotubes -Made in Metal Furnace
-Petroleum Gas
-Nitrogen
(This is a pretty viable component list for making carbon nanotubes using CVD. There are some other catalysts involved but they will not be consumed by the process.)

Aircraft Titanium
(IRL Titanium is quite common, but expensive to refine)
2 Fe + O2 + 2 TiO2 → 2 FeTiO3 (This line is guesswork but the rest are perfectly accurate)
2 FeTiO3 + 7 Cl2 + 6 C → 2 TiCl4 + 2 FeCl3 + 6 CO (900 °C)
TiCl4 + 2 Mg → 2 MgCl2 + Ti (1100 °C) (IRL the 2 high temperature steps are slow compared to other metal processes)
The Ti in the end could be Aircraft Quality Titanium, to be specific.
Or you could just use titanium as is.

Tungsten is not a particularly good aircraft or spacecraft frame material as far as I know.

[hegemontree]

bman212121 wrote:
I think it would be interesting if you could possibly change the pollution output of the rocket silo, so that once that part is done, it severely increases the pollution on the map. This would trigger a lot more alien activity coming to try to destroy the rocket silo, or at least try to over run you while you're busy running full scale factory production and mining. Obviously it would make more sense in reality that the pollution is triggered while the rocket lifts off into space, but for game play reasons you can say it's in anticipation of the amount of pollution the rocket will generate. And maybe it can continue to increase with each percentage that you complete on the silo, but that may be too difficult to figure out how to do.

I agree that it would be good for gameplay reasons.
However, rocket launches need not produce any pollution at all IRL. Liquid Hydrogen and Liquid Oxygen remain the most efficient rocket fuel in terms of energy per mass. The exhaust produced by this reaction is just water. This is currently in use on the Delta 4 I believe.

[bigyihsuan]

Voted for an original name. Name it "Bob's Rocket", to fit the style of the other Bob's Mods.

[maggi321]

First of all: Great idea! I was also very disappointed when I reached the end game after months of fun with bobs mods, just to find out that the rocket recipe wasn't changed.

Just one little thing:

I dig the changes you've made, but the mod has some errors with mods that look at recipes during data-final-fixes (recycling type mods in my case). Since your mod already has a dependency on all of bobs, I changed bobHarderEndgame data-final-fixes.lua to data-updates.lua and now it runs with less problems. (you can always check load order in factorio-current.log) Perhaps something to consider for next release. Good work on the mod so far, I'm including it in my regular list

I agree with func_door, that you could easily move the code to data-updates.lua. Maybe also try to reduce some of the dependencies. For example do you really need bobconfig and bobtech? Maybe you could even make your mod kind of modular and always use the available parts from other mods. For example, some people (including me) don't like bobs modules, because of the overpowered god modules. Maybe you could make this mod optional by sticking to the vanilla modules and only use bobs modules, when they are installed?

Thanks for your great job!

P.S.: I would also use "Bobs Rocket"