DeathWorld SpeedRun

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BlueTemplar
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DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by BlueTemplar »

Has anyone managed to do all of the achievements in a single game on Death World ?
Surely someone did, considering that a normal game speedrun record is under 2 hours these days... but I didn't find any !

Meanwhile, I can't manage to even beat "Getting on track like a pro" :
One attempt, in a heavily forested area, aiming for half a lane of iron, I managed in those 90 minutes to get 3/4 of the way to Logistics 2 :
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>>>eNpjZICDBnsQ5mBJzk/MgfFAmCs5v6AgtUg3vygVWZgzuag0JVU3
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zPIkQvwMAcqag9g==<<<
Another attempt, in an area half-protected by forest, aiming for a full lane of iron, I only managed in those 90 minutes to get 1/3 to Logistics 2 :
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>>>eNpjZICDBnsQ5mBJzk/MgfFAmCs5v6AgtUg3vygVWZgzuag0JVU3
PxNVcWpeam6lblJiMVAxgwMEA03NLMrPQzeBtbgkPw9VpKQoNbUYWYS
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MN1pevgQAXjKgfA==<<<
Continuing that attempt, it took slightly over 2 hours to plop the first locomotive - at this production rate the biters were quite troublesome, killed 2.1k of small ones :
Image

(I know that Clan Hawkins is trying something similar, but he's playing on settings easier than Death World, specifically starting area size of 133% instead of 75% :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFVPCZP_0tw )
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

Yeah, would love to see this. Fun challenge. It requires a pretty large degree of dynamic skills

btw, you can get about 100 ore every minute with a fairly minimal burner set. From there you can get the requisite 4500 ore in about 45 minutes. you may need to move and find a new patch once your pollution cloud threatens invasion. With this, you can craft out the science required for GOTLAP.

You do all your smelting off in the trees, away from the biters. Use the wood to absorb the cloud and power the furnace. I get about 50 furnaces going at once, takes about three or four minutes to smelt 4500 ore.

Build power plus a bunch of assemblers, and start handfeeding science. be careful to get your numbers right or you'll end up not having enough

Boring way to do it, but it's very dooable. Definitely a useful way to bootstrap to turrets / military / oil
Last edited by blazespinnaker on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

If you're feeling particular cautious, you can also just hand mind a lot of ore. Won't break a lot of records that way tho, but at least you can to get turrets with zero risk.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by Yoyobuae »

It's all in the map seed. ;)

For example this map gives you around 50 minutes before the even the first attack, and that's while filling the iron, copper and stone to the brim with electric miners. Note that those three large scary bases in the middle of the forest mostly don't spawn, only one spawner at the very south escapes the forest.
Screenshot_2020-11-25_11-10-02.png
Screenshot_2020-11-25_11-10-02.png (255.5 KiB) Viewed 3291 times

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>>>eNpjZICDBnsQ5mBJzk/MgfFAmCs5v6AgtUg3vygVWZgzuag0J
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5Ti<<<
On other maps the first attack would come within 10~15 minutes.

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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

Well, on deathworld, you definitely want to wander the map. There's usually (about 90% of the time?) an iron patch somewhere not so close to a biter base. You only need about 1300 copper or so to get settled in.

Some maps are absolutely brutal, of course. For those, I haven't figured a way to win other than early hand mining.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by BlueTemplar »

Yeah, so I continued that last game, failed the first "launch window", will post screenshots some other time. (I'm on another PC.)
blazespinnaker wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:47 pm
[...]
You do all your smelting off in the trees, away from the biters. Use the wood to absorb the cloud and power the furnace. I get about 50 furnaces going at once, takes about three or four minutes to smelt 4500 ore.
[...]
That's what I tried to do (see the first picture), but it's not enough...
How aren't biters gang-jumping you with a whopping 50 furnaces ?!
blazespinnaker wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:30 pm
If you're feeling particular cautious, you can also just hand mind a lot of ore. Won't break a lot of records that way tho, but at least you can to get turrets with zero risk.
The whole point is to plop a train in less than 90 minutes, no way to do this if you do any significant amount of hand-mining...

Also in one of my AngelBob Rampant DeathWorld playthroughs I hand-mined like 50k ore...
(Bob's pickaxes and Vlad's Auto Time FTW !)
Yoyobuae wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:14 pm
It's all in the map seed. ;)

For example this map gives you around 50 minutes before the even the first attack, and that's while filling the iron, copper and stone to the brim with electric miners. Note that those three large scary bases in the middle of the forest mostly don't spawn, only one spawner at the very south escapes the forest.
Heh, nice trick !
IMHO using forest to block biter spawn, and especially pre-viewing the map before playing is kind of cheaty though ?
blazespinnaker wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:33 pm
Well, on deathworld, you definitely want to wander the map. There's usually (about 90% of the time?) an iron patch somewhere not so close to a biter base. You only need about 1300 copper or so to get settled in.

Some maps are absolutely brutal, of course. For those, I haven't figured a way to win other than early hand mining.
Again, this is more likely to hinder than to help the speedrunning...
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by Challenger007 »

blazespinnaker wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:33 pm
Well, on deathworld, you definitely want to wander the map. There's usually (about 90% of the time?) an iron patch somewhere not so close to a biter base. You only need about 1300 copper or so to get settled in.

Some maps are absolutely brutal, of course. For those, I haven't figured a way to win other than early hand mining.
Did you use bots for mining or some other utilities?

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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

I find selecting maps via preview very much cheezing it, personally, though I get the desire. I really detest maps where the original 4 patches are spread out as I find running back and forth the absolute opposite of fun. Small patches are fine, but spread out.. that's a serious programming flaw, IMHO.

In terms of Speedrunning and DW though, the key is to avoid triggering an attack as you lose a lot of iron to turrets. Losing the iron, requires more mining and more pollution. So, really anything you can do to avoid triggering an attack is likely a time saver.
Did you use bots for mining or some other utilities?
No. The issue is on some maps, biters will be spawning very near your original patches and without hand mining, you'll trigger an attack very quickly.

Another technique I've been working on, is just getting fish early on. With enough fish, you can pretty much walk in and take out nearby bases in light armor and an automatic rifle.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

blazespinnaker wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:48 am
I find selecting maps via preview very much cheezing it, personally, though I get the desire. I really detest maps where the original 4 patches are spread out as I find running back and forth the absolute opposite of fun. Small patches are fine, but spread out.. that's a serious programming flaw, IMHO.
If you only want to see the starting patches and not spoil the others, I believe that you can change the map preview size in the config file.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

I tried this out.

Gotlap is actually very trivial on DW. The trick isn't so much the achievement, but rather getting a better time than just the 90m.

You need about ~2300 iron and ~800 copper for science and overhead. If you run just 4 drills, 3 for iron and 1 for copper, you'll get 1.5 iron per second. That'll take about 30m or so to get all the necessary ore with very little pollution production. The nice thing about this low pollution production is that spawners don't really send out that many biters when they start absorbing. You can fairly easily hold them off with just a pistol and light armor. Getting a couple of turrets helps too, depending on your layout - you won't need to arm them with much in the way of magazines.

Hand mining helps, as it removes the requirement for 1 drill. Looking around for a better patch is always a good idea if biters are too close to the original ones. You can put burners on the secondary patches.

Your research bottleneck for gotlap is always logistics 2, which requires 100m of research time. You'll probably need to run at least 4 labs to cut that down to 25m, if not more labs / less time. You can probably get away with using assemblers for everything, all depends on how good a time you want I guess and how much hand crafting you want to do.

One idea is to go for green science first and then assemblers so you can start hand crafting gs while you get the rest of your stuff together. Red science is pretty easy to craft, so focus on the GS as much as possible as soon as possible. You're going to need about 375 of it. For hand crafting, just getting the 375 belts and inserters is probably good enough, manually hand crafting science doesn't make much sense. I think you want (roughly) 2 labs per 1 green science assembler.

--

There is no spoon on DW, though, that would be interesting for sure. Far more interesting than most speedruns you see up on youtube, especially if the map is typical DW and not carefully curated via preview.

I've mentioned this before, but I think the approach would be similar to gotlap. Basically, very low pollution production until you get landmines. You can ease up a bit once you're there (produce more pollution), and then go for bots. Bots + landmines and you're fairly well situated in terms of holding off the biters.

DW Marathon + there is no spoon, not sure it's possible.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by jodokus31 »

blazespinnaker wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:56 am
There is no spoon on DW, though, that would be interesting for sure. Far more interesting than most speedruns you see up on youtube, especially if the map is typical DW and not carefully curated via preview.
https://www.speedrun.com/Factorio#_Category_Extensions
3:36

but "carefully curated via preview" ;)

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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

They are good runs for sure, but to be honest, my standard / non DW maps frequently have a worse starting position than those runs.

It's a tricky problem. I think community agreed upon seeds would be more suitable for something like this.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by BlueTemplar »

Yeah, that's also why I shared mine.
You can probably get away with using assemblers for everything, all depends on how good a time you want I guess and how much hand crafting you want to do.

One idea is to go for green science first and then assemblers so you can start hand crafting gs while you get the rest of your stuff together. Red science is pretty easy to craft, so focus on the GS as much as possible as soon as possible. You're going to need about 375 of it. For hand crafting, just getting the 375 belts and inserters is probably good enough, manually hand crafting science doesn't make much sense. I think you want (roughly) 2 labs per 1 green science assembler.
I'm *also* doing all achievements, which means Lazy Bastard, so no handcrafting.
jodokus31 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:28 am
blazespinnaker wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:56 am
There is no spoon on DW, though, that would be interesting for sure. Far more interesting than most speedruns you see up on youtube, especially if the map is typical DW and not carefully curated via preview.
https://www.speedrun.com/Factorio#_Category_Extensions
3:36

but "carefully curated via preview" ;)
Oh, interesting, 4 & 5 months ago, I wonder if this thread of mine got people talking about trying DeathWorld speedruns ?
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

Yeah, that's also why I shared mine.
Yeah, I actually tried your seed for a bit but all those trees makes things a bit too easy, to be honest. Try a desert map with biter spawners around 40m away or so.

Have you launched a rocket with DW Marathon yet? That's pretty hard and fun too.

Another interesting challenge is the recipe randomizer. Each game is pretty unique.
Oh, interesting, 4 & 5 months ago, I wonder if this thread of mine got people talking about trying DeathWorld speedruns ?
Could be! I find the speedrun.com thing a bit rules obsessed though. I mean, speedrun however you want, IMHO.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by DaveMcW »

Really? I only see 2 rules in the most popular category of Any%.
  • Don't import blueprints.
  • Don't cheat.
If you really love blueprints, you can play NewGame+ which only has one rule:
  • Don't cheat.

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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by jodokus31 »

blazespinnaker wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:51 am
I mean, speedrun however you want, IMHO.
You can do that, you can even run a self defined category and let it create on speedrun.com, if you want competitors.
They just don't want to have a category and nobody's running it.

Or just do it for yourself or in another community.
blazespinnaker wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:51 am
Yeah, I actually tried your seed for a bit but all those trees makes things a bit too easy, to be honest. Try a desert map with biter spawners around 40m away or so.

Have you launched a rocket with DW Marathon yet? That's pretty hard and fun too.

Another interesting challenge is the recipe randomizer. Each game is pretty unique.
He is doing all achievements on a self chosen map.
I mean, speedrun however you want, IMHO.

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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by BlueTemplar »

Have you launched a rocket with DW Marathon yet? That's pretty hard and fun too.
Kind of :
viewtopic.php?p=445072#p445072
(Though I generally get bored after I get arty/nuke/(spidertron?), hence this challenge.)
Another interesting challenge is the recipe randomizer. Each game is pretty unique.
Tried one that randomizes the recipes themselves, not just the numbers, with Sea Block :
viewtopic.php?p=474157#p474157
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

Very cool. I agree, once you get artillery things sort of normalize - just bigger numbers.

I kinda stopped around here:

viewtopic.php?p=538064#p538064

I was launching 1 rocket around every 5 minutes or so and my computer was starting to slow down.

It also gets too easy tho and the challenge goes away. In particular, if you have water on our map and can do artillery islands + logistics. Hopefully they nerf that in the DLC. I usually just turn off water on my map, so no islands (except for the first one).

They might want to consider nerfing landmines as well. They are rather unbalanced (especially with auto refill from bots) and make many of the other tools in the kit a bit redundant. I was always a bit sad at how pointless and unnecessary walls were.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by BlueTemplar »

Both walls and landmines have their uses - the nice thing about walls is that they only take stone and energy.
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Re: DeathWorld SpeedRun

Post by blazespinnaker »

Behemoth spitters would likely differ on that one, I suspect. Going into /editor and pasting the various mobs in different configurations is rather illuminating.
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