Whats the point?

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polimerjones
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Whats the point?

Post by polimerjones »

To start off I think Factorio falls into one of my favorite top 10 games I have ever played. As the developers get closer and closer to 1.0 I keep hoping to understanding the point of the game though. The problem is, I don't think there is one nor do I think there ever will be.

With the game being a free play it allows the player to decide to focus on launching the rocket as their goal, getting max production, wiping out the bugs, making the smallest base as possible. While I think this is great as it allows players with many different playing styles to enjoy the game, I feel like the lack of focus on a specific goal has resulted in some negatives for each playing style.

My playing style generally leads me to the goal of launching the rocket. I think this is because I like to have the "You Win" feeling or something like that. However, as the game needs to continue after launch the rocket to support the other play styles it feels like a very soft win.

I have also tried leaning towards some other play styles like deathworld and having the game run more like a tower defense. But again, as the focus isn't this type of game mode it just doesn't flow very well.

I also feel this was the main reason the campaign was cancelled. How do you drive a player towards a certain goal when there is none.

I'm not sure there is a fix for this as if the devs pick a goal the other play styles will get left behind. Maybe the scenarios are the only way. Who knows. Anyone else feel the same?

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by netmand »

I'm sorta with you on this. After my first few run-throughs of the game it got tired for me, then I decided to vanquish all of the achievements which re-kindled my interest. Now it's just waiting for significant changes to start over again and re-experience the game from the beginning.

Eventually they're going to release 1.0 ... I don't know what that means in relation to changes, maybe they'll slow down to a crawl? Maybe only bug fixes?

I only play vanilla, but I really think their intent is for long-time players to keep their interest via mods. I can think of several games that wouldn't have lasted long without their mod community.

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by Squelch »

Instead of asking "What's the point?" we could ask "Does it need a point?"

What I mean is, Factorio is ultimately a sandbox game, and as such, enforcing an arbitrary final goal might not be for everyone. It's still nice to have for the completionists amongst us, the same goes same for the achievements system. Personally, I'm ambivalent about these and set my own goals on each playthrough.

The real attraction for me in Factorio, and similar games, is the freedom to be as imaginative as possible with the tools provided, and always with the plan of doing it just that bit more efficiently, or neatly than the last. Games that are "on rails" with an enforced linear progression or levels, always lead me to explore the limits of the map, capabilities, or storyline to the extent where that actually becomes the goal, and not what the devs of that particular game even intended. eg, The original Half Life - great game, great story, large multi-route levels but still linear. I found myself exploiting "features" like herding as many Barnies and scientists into one room as possible because they would respawn once coerced outside of their intended area. Other examples could include instigating fights between the AI enemies that would normally never interact to my ultimate advantage.

Add mods into the mix with a sandbox game like Factorio, and the permutations increase manyfold. There's always some new way of achieving something with the additional tools.

Should extra, optional goals be added?
Absolutely and why not?

Should Factorio have a story arc and prescribed ways of finishing it?
I hope not.

What's the point?
There is none, and that is exactly what appeals.

Hanse00
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Re: Whats the point?

Post by Hanse00 »

Squelch wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:46 pm
What's the point?
There is none, and that is exactly what appeals.
Agreed.

Similarly to Minecraft (And especially modded Minecraft, from which Factorio draws inspiration), the point is to play the game, and have fun with it.

thatguy321
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Re: Whats the point?

Post by thatguy321 »

It's a fairly regular occurrence to see these "what's the point?" threads. Most of them say something like "after a few run throughs, I've grown tired of this game." How many hours did those run throughs take you? In my mind, if a game can hold your interest for 50 hours or more, it has been worth more than what you paid for it (especially at $20 USD!). And in reality, most Factorio players spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on the game.

Just like "real life", if all you do is worry about what's next or what's the point, you don't enjoy the process, which IS the point! :) Factorio is a sandbox game, it is only as fun as the size of your imagination!
"I have come here to smelt iron ore and kick biter ass.....and I'm all out of iron ore." -me

polimerjones
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Re: Whats the point?

Post by polimerjones »

I agree. Like I mentioned, having no point is why I think so many players like this game. It allows you to make your own goal. While I don't have the same amount of hours into the game as others (I'm currently sitting at 337), the amount of hours I do have is way more value then the price I paid. I am happy with the purchase and will continue to play the game.

Whats I also find interesting is that, if the devs asked me personally what I would add to the game to make it fit my play style better, I don't know if I would have an answer for them.

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by FrodoOf9Fingers »

The point is entertainment. If you have experienced so much of the game that you are starting to lose enjoyment, you've completed the game. Some hit that point at 2 hours. Some will at 2,000 hours (or more!).

The hope is that you got your moneys worth, nothing wrong with moving on.

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by Ghoulish »

polimerjones wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:04 pm
My playing style generally leads me to the goal of launching the rocket. I think this is because I like to have the "You Win" feeling or something like that.
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This is a little misleading to me, as it does imply do this - you've won! But for me this is where Factorio begins, not ends.

After the first rocket is launched you then have a continual massive drain on your Factory's resources. But why stop there? Ask yourself what you would have to do to launch a rocket a little faster! The first step will likely be slapping down a few extra assemblers and beacons here and there, but soon the belts will run dry, as you just don't have enough stuff getting thrown in at the start (ore -> plates) So more smelters! How can I run those plate belts to where they are needed? And then once you've now got enough stuff going in to the Factory you have to expand to make use of it.. Dammit not enough red chips now! So more green chips, and they you realise you don't have enough petrol for the plastic.. And now you're spitting rockets out left right and centre, but have a bazzillion space science packs sitting in logistics, well, time to upgrade the research!

For me it's the never ending expansion and open ended aspect to Factorio where the joy lies. Been playing the game a while now, and I am still learning new and better ways to design or expand a factory. I browse these forums looking at other peoples Factory's and think - Shit! That is such a eloquent way to do it! Why didn't I think of that? So much still to learn! Factorio truly starts after the first rocket.

Perhaps after launching that first rocket, the wording of the pop up could be changed to better reflect that this is just the start, not the end.
See the daily™ struggles with my Factory! :D https://www.twitch.tv/repetitivebeats

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by VainSeahorse »

Ghoulish wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:30 am
polimerjones wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:04 pm
My playing style generally leads me to the goal of launching the rocket. I think this is because I like to have the "You Win" feeling or something like that.
qqqqqqqqq.png

This is a little misleading to me, as it does imply do this - you've won! But for me this is where Factorio begins, not ends.

After the first rocket is launched you then have a continual massive drain on your Factory's resources. But why stop there? Ask yourself what you would have to do to launch a rocket a little faster! The first step will likely be slapping down a few extra assemblers and beacons here and there, but soon the belts will run dry, as you just don't have enough stuff getting thrown in at the start (ore -> plates) So more smelters! How can I run those plate belts to where they are needed? And then once you've now got enough stuff going in to the Factory you have to expand to make use of it.. Dammit not enough red chips now! So more green chips, and they you realise you don't have enough petrol for the plastic.. And now you're spitting rockets out left right and centre, but have a bazzillion space science packs sitting in logistics, well, time to upgrade the research!

For me it's the never ending expansion and open ended aspect to Factorio where the joy lies. Been playing the game a while now, and I am still learning new and better ways to design or expand a factory. I browse these forums looking at other peoples Factory's and think - Shit! That is such a eloquent way to do it! Why didn't I think of that? So much still to learn! Factorio truly starts after the first rocket.

Perhaps after launching that first rocket, the wording of the pop up could be changed to better reflect that this is just the start, not the end.
The real attraction for me in Factorio, and similar games, is the freedom to be as imaginative as possible with the tools provided, and always with the plan of doing it just that bit more efficiently, or neatly than the last. Games that are "on rails" with an enforced linear progression or levels, always lead me to explore the limits of the map, capabilities, or storyline to the extent where that actually becomes the goal, and not what the devs of that particular game even intended. eg, The original Half Life - great game, great story, large multi-route levels but still linear. I found myself exploiting "features" like herding as many Barnies and scientists into one room as possible because they would respawn once coerced outside of their intended area. Other examples could include instigating fights between the AI enemies that would normally never interact to my ultimate advantage.

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leadraven
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Re: Whats the point?

Post by leadraven »

Let's be honest, Factorio isn't a game, its an engine with gameplay demo. Any suggestions to extend provided demo end in the mods section.
It is true for many sandboxes.

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by Sopenas »

For me right now factorio end of game is 1 rocket per minute sustained. To achieve that base must be build a bit differently that just to launch 1 rocket.

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planetmaker
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Re: Whats the point?

Post by planetmaker »

There's also so many ways to achieve a / the goal. The point is also to explore the many ways possible. Always doing things one way which works surely gets boring quickly. But there's A LOT of ways. And it's fun trying them out in different games (or even the same)

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by shihsaikwok »

polimerjones wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:18 pm
I agree. Like I mentioned, having no point is why I think so many players like this game. It allows you to make your own goal. While I don't have the same amount of hours into the game as others (I'm currently sitting at 337), the amount of hours I do have is way more value then the price I paid. I am happy with the purchase and will continue to play the game.

Whats I also find interesting is that, if the devs asked me personally what I would add to the game to make it fit my play style better, I don't know if I would have an answer for them.
Your open post sounds you are just raising the very typical question of "what is the goal of this game". But after reading your own reply, seems you agree that players usually make their own goal. And same as most of us here, we like this kind of style so far.

Besides, I will be happy if there is an epic campaign with some story lines to increase the depth of the game.

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Re: Whats the point?

Post by MakeItGraphic »

I agree scenarios are great way to give meaning to different play styles.

The way I've all ways played was based on design, and realism*. Coming from City Simulators I often focus on the aesthetics and function of things from a real world perspective. There are a lot of mods existing, as well as potential to grow on this play style all ready. And I've even played around a lot with the idea of a city builder mod. Filling note books up with ideas.

Actually just checked and I can't find the person who originally pitched the idea, was looking for people to message them. But it looks as if someone all ready took up the mantle. Good Stuff: viewtopic.php?f=190&t=75057&p=453676&hi ... er#p453676

That's one of the best appeals of this is the flexibility, you can play anyway you want.

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