Laser Turrets and their Speed Upgrades

[Kazuar]

... how do they work?

So I've played around in Sandbox with them, trying to unterstand their energy consumptions and upgrades and stuff, and I just fail to make sense of the Laser Turret Speed Upgrades.

Supposedly, they increase firing speed by 20% each on the lower levels, and 30% each on the higher levels. That's how all the other speed upgrades work - you get a bullet speed upgrade, and firing speed goes up by the indicated percentage. You get Shotgun speed upgrade, shotgun firing speed goes up by the indicated percentage. And so on.

Soo... you get the first laser speed upgrade and... with a 20% increase, the infobox should show something like "Shooting speed 3 + 0.6".

But thats not how it works - even after the upgrade, it stays at "Shooting speed 3". No plus sign, no indication of any bonus whatsoever. But, maybe it's just some weird number flooring issue that works to "hide" the upgrade from the UI.

So, with the second laser speed upgrade, shooting speed should go to something like "Shooting speed 3 + 1.2", or "Shooting speed 3 + 1" or whatever.

Nope, still shows "Shooting speed 3".

Sooo, maybe, for some reason, the shooting speed works not as a multiplier bonus, but is added for some reason? Let's get the next techs and rank up the "firing speed bonus" to 100% (= upgrade level 4 out of 6).

Still shows "Shooting speed 3".

Soo, maybe the shooting bonus is not displayed for lasers?

Nope. Next tech and suddenly, "Shooting speed 3 + 1"
With a supposed 130% firing speed bonus.

Go to the last level: "Shooting speed 3 + 2". With a supposed 160% bonus.

There is no indication within the game that this bonus should work any differently than any other weapon speed upgrade, and with any other weapon speed upgrade, the bonus works as expected (i.e. have +60% firing speed on bullets, submachine gun shows "Shooting Speed: 15 + 9").



Sooooo......

Could anyone please enlighten me on how these math out?

[SHiRKiT]

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing, and could never understand that. I guess it's 3 shots per second (the meaning of shooting speed), but that's all I understood from that. I've always wondered the same thing. With DyTech laser turrets things makes even less sense, with things like "Shooting speed 1 + 0".

[roman566]

My guess it's a bug, with shooting speed below 100% you get the default one because in the code it's something like 0%+20% rather than 100%+20%, so only when you get above 100% you get first improvements of the shooting speed.

[Rahjital]

Perhaps it's some sort of strange integer rounding behaviour? Either way, it sounds like it belongs to the bug report subforum.

[JLBShecky]

So I just took a few minutes to play around with this in sandbox on my modded setup and it looks to most likely be a display issue. With DyTech-Warefare installed and all techs researched for the basic laser I have "Shooting speed: 3+ 2", and looking at DyTech-Warefar's turrets and technologies they match up with vanilla's so it is having an effect, so the only question that remains is it a display rounding issue or when it does rounding of shot speed does do actual rounding on the bonus before applying it.

Regular turrets don't seem to have a shooting speed upgrade or I would look into them, but I agree with Rahjital that this might be best moved into the bug report subforum.

[Kazuar]

Well, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that this is a bug... and seems like one, but it could also be some weird, but intended, buffer inflow mechanic at work, no?

[JLBShecky]

Well I haven't done any empirical tests to see if lasers shoot any faster when it doesn't show any bonus speed listed, so I don't know if it is just a display issue or not. That said there is a typo in the display of extra turret firing speed. All other bonus have a space before the '+' and it doesn't not appear that this is something translation related, so it would probably be best reported as a bug, and while they are at it they could take a moment to look to see if it is not displaying the speed bonus when it is a decimal number for turrets, like they do for handheld weapons.

[Oxygene]

What it could be is the speed of the laser from turret to biter. Bullets hit instantly but there is travel time on laser shots.
You could have the most powerful gun in the world, but if the enemy can get within range, shoot at your stuff and THEN die, whats the point in it!

[coolidge]

light travels a bit faster than bullets

[lpw]

light travels a bit faster than bullets

Not in this game or any sci-fi movie I have seen. The problem is, that lasers are associated with the moving beams of light (which shouldn't be visible at all) and if you have that graphical representation the game mechanics try to stay consistent with it.

But for balancing reasons I also think this should be fixed, but than you wouldn't see the lasers shot this way. A nice solution I have read somewhere on the forum is to turn the laser turret into a beam weapon with a continuous beam and continuous damage.

[tecxx]

why cant you make real lasers then, i mean, laser beams starting at the turrent, ending at the target, and not some weird "bolts" of light moving around?
it would look way cooler that way anyway.

[immibis]

If this happens, I think the current turrets should stay and be renamed to plasma weapons (or something) since they're cool.

Or how about research to increase the laser "bullet" speed?

[ssilk]

If the target moves,lasers follow in a curve.


I want a laser beam, that would make sense.

[starxplor]

Any fan of B5 knows that it is possible to have cutting lasers or simulated projectile lasers(short bursts of high power meant to punch holes, not cut through).

Additionally, anyone who has worked with real lasers knows how much power an effective laser would take, and providing continuous vs bursted power is a way to not melt your laser housing and have reasonable power requirements...

No reason the laser turrets can't be pulse based.

[Kevin94]

When you are arguing with the point of beeing realistic you have to consider all aspects. Especially the ones you havent and that lack realistic behavior the most:
a) Light travels that fast, that real laser beams would do instant damage, for the given distances
b) Real laser pulses do not follow any target, but that wouldn't be a problem if a) would be realistic

My suggestion is to turn lasers into a pulsed beam wapon: continous (grahical) beam from tower to target, but not working all the time, but in short pulses/shots.

[ssilk]

a) Light travels that fast, that real laser beams would do instant damage, for the given distances

But you need many pulses. Many games are already making that like so and not in Star Wars manner.

b) Real laser pulses do not follow any target, but that wouldn't be a problem if a) would be realistic

A laser pulse for Factorio would need minimum 1/60 second.

My suggestion is to turn lasers into a pulsed beam wapon: continous (grahical) beam from tower to target, but not working all the time, but in short pulses/shots.

Exactly!

[roman566]

Maybe two weapons? Rename the current laser turret to something like 'particle turret', give it instant hit abilities and leave it like that. Then add a second high level, high energy requirement, constant laser beam weapon.
Two weapons would be much easier to balance as everyone would simply keep the old turrets in case the new ones were to weak or to expensive to power.

[SHiRKiT]

That's why I love video games: we can just shoot light and kill stuff with it!