Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

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mrvn
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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by mrvn » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:38 am

Putting speed modules into assemblers instead of beacons makes no sense. In the beacon each module affects several assemblers so you need less modules. Unless a beacon is more expensive than N (depending on your setup) speed modules. Is that the case for S1?

So in the above graphs what is missing is a setup with S1 in beacons, S2 in beacons, S3 in beacons, combination of modules in beacons and AMs. But overall I think speed modules are always a loss. Simply building more AMs is cheaper.

If power, pollution and space can be ignored then the only place (tire 3) modules makes sense is with prod modules. A prod module always makes sense in the long run since you get more output for the same input. And AM + prod modules becomes so expensive that beacon + speed module is cheaper than building more AMs + prod modules. It's the area effect of the beacon that makes the difference. Speed modules in beacons saves more prod modules and speed and prod module have the same cost.

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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by Selvek » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:37 pm

I'm specifically NOT ignoring space - yes, it's infinite in theory, but the realities of laying out a megabase mean space is relevant (especially if you have to clear biters and wall-off your area). Power may also be relevant, I just didn't get around to doing the power calculations :)

The argument for S1 only is that you get the majority of the space reduction for a modest cost increase. I agree, S1 beacons only might be an interesting case, I may get to it eventually - I also attached my spreadsheet if you feel like adding that calculation!

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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by Tekillaa » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:24 pm

Hi,

I use beacon with speed module and speed module in AM for my module production :
-when I aim a designated output, use beacon allow me to use less AMs and inserters, the distribution of circuit and different tier module become easy. (less active entities also improve performances)
-use less AM and inserters use less space, it allow me very small production line, it's faster for me and bot to gather what we want when we need to.

In this game, we can take lot of different path to go into the same result, it depends on how you like to do things : small? big? spaghetti? belt in lines? Circular? Sushi?
I think it's a matter of taste. In my builds i use beacon because i try to use "the less active entities, the better" so beacon help in any case when we try to reach a goal (X item/min).

I hope my PoV will help you somehow, Factorio is awesome!
It should be add in the game: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67650 :)

mrvn
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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by mrvn » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:52 am

Tekillaa wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:24 pm
Hi,

I use beacon with speed module and speed module in AM for my module production :
-when I aim a designated output, use beacon allow me to use less AMs and inserters, the distribution of circuit and different tier module become easy. (less active entities also improve performances)
-use less AM and inserters use less space, it allow me very small production line, it's faster for me and bot to gather what we want when we need to.

In this game, we can take lot of different path to go into the same result, it depends on how you like to do things : small? big? spaghetti? belt in lines? Circular? Sushi?
I think it's a matter of taste. In my builds i use beacon because i try to use "the less active entities, the better" so beacon help in any case when we try to reach a goal (X item/min).

I hope my PoV will help you somehow, Factorio is awesome!
I'm waiting more for thing to be produced than for bots or me to place things. Clearing aliens is also more of an issue for getting more ores. So if I can reduce the amount of ores needed and time to produce stuff then that is a plus. Increasing ore costs and production times jut for a smaller footprint I find near useless generally.

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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by Tekillaa » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:42 am

mrvn wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:52 am

I'm waiting more for thing to be produced than for bots or me to place things. Clearing aliens is also more of an issue for getting more ores. So if I can reduce the amount of ores needed and time to produce stuff then that is a plus. Increasing ore costs and production times jut for a smaller footprint I find near useless generally.
I was talking about speed module for AM producing module only! I use only speed module in Module's AM because i can't put productivity module (no productivity module for "logistic and production item"), so i agree with you, i put productivity module everywhere i can.
It should be add in the game: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67650 :)

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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by jamiechi1 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:22 pm

I guess it depends on how you play the game. Vanilla, with some mods, with big mods like Bobs and Angels.
For Vanilla or with simple mods I have found beacons to be useful.
In my recent play through with Bobs mods, (and a few others,) I found I never needed Beacons. With the added tiers of machines, I don't see the need. And I only got up to the first 3 tiers of machines.

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Re: Module Production: To beacon or not to beacon?

Post by mrvn » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:46 pm

jamiechi1 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:22 pm
I guess it depends on how you play the game. Vanilla, with some mods, with big mods like Bobs and Angels.
For Vanilla or with simple mods I have found beacons to be useful.
In my recent play through with Bobs mods, (and a few others,) I found I never needed Beacons. With the added tiers of machines, I don't see the need. And I only got up to the first 3 tiers of machines.
Not really. The mods only change the math a bit. E.g. with Bobs you can place a lot more beacons around an assembler. And higher tire assembler have more module slots.

But the basic consideration is still: What is cheaper? And so far everything I checked it's never cheaper to use speed modules on their own. Only with production modules in the assemblers do speed modules save materials.

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