Are Bitters unnecessary?

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conn11
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Re: Are Bitters unnecessary?

Post by conn11 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:21 pm

Rebmes wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:32 am
I am thinking of turning them off for good.

The biggest issue for me is that I'm never in a position of actually defending my factory. I always keep them out of my pollution area, and simply venture out to clear them out whenever they - or I - have expanded too much. The battles can be fun and challenging, and do put a clock on things in the early game (have to get some military tech pretty quick to start clearing them fast enough).

I don't ever see any point in playing it in a defensive manner, and never have walls or turrets or defenses of any kind. I know that playing defensively will boost their evolution very quickly due to pollution, and evolution is the real danger. Of course, once you have enough tech to defeat the behemoths, defending doesn't cause them to evolve any further and defense becomes an option - but this is too far in to the game for me to care. It's easier to keep clearing them at that point, than to build defenses from the ground up around a giant factory.

If it were a more defensive game against them, I'd be more interested - but as it is, my factory is never threatened and clearing nests just becomes a chore and a distraction.
Or you do play defensively, scale up your military factory sections, knowing they will evolve quickly due to evolution, but have better thing to do than manually clear an area and finally let artillery take care of them. Laser turrets and/or flamethrower turrets are a rock solid defense at any stage, therefore defense is a perfectly valid strategy. Or as suggested just use peaceful mode.

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Re: Are Bitters unnecessary?

Post by mudcrabempire » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:05 pm

The viability of defense/offense is also a question of difficulty, size of your factory and your skill.

Going to the biters and killing them before they attack you works decently, at normal difficulty and for the first part of the game. The higher your skill, the longer you can get away with it. But at some point your pollution cloud becomes so big that manually going to the biters and keeping them away takes most of your time if not being straight up impossible. Also, regardless of the viability, going to the biters requires constant attention and monitoring, whereas a defensive perimeter is much more forgiving to people who tend to forget "details" like that (me, for example).

If you play on a higher difficulty (or if you play in Soviet Russia), biters will come to you (sooner or later), whether you like it or not and they will wreak heavoc if unchecked, so a good defense is pretty much mandatory.

About evolution from killing bases vs evolution from production of the defense: Setting up a good defense and all the research may increase evolution initially, but if you use solar/nuclear powered laser turrets, once you have the setup, the defense is free/almost free (except repairs every now and then).

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jamiechi1
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Re: Are Bitters unnecessary?

Post by jamiechi1 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:18 pm

As for "Bitters", I had some in England once. And I liked it, and found it somewhat necessary.
As for "Biters", I have that feature disabled. I prefer to play the game without them.

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Ranakastrasz
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Re: Are Bitters unnecessary?

Post by Ranakastrasz » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:30 pm

Biters asd a soft time constraint, and a semirandom modifier to your play, but both decay in effectiveness as you get later in the game.

Until you have good defenses, overpollution and cutting doen forests is a bad idea.
Having to get weapons and ammo and killing enemy bases takes time and resources, but guves you more building space. Larger bases don't just take more resources, but more powerful tech.

Space constraints are good, because it makes premade blueprints harder to use, and encourages spaghetti and creative designs. One reason I don't care much for landfill or cliff explosives.

However, once you have defenses, pollution matters less. Waves can be automatically handled most of the time, and as long as your tech and defenses keep up, varying by difficulty, you are fine.
With landfill and cliff explosives and turret creep or tanks or artillery, you can freely expand in any direction.

I agree with removing alien artifacts, as annoyed as I was when it happened. It wasn't really needed. Biters worked fine as is.

Honestly, the "new tutorial of horrific death" showed what biter attacks were supposed to represent. Attacks scaled to your polution, so as you produced more, attacks increased as well.
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Darthlawsuit
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Re: Are Bitters unnecessary?

Post by Darthlawsuit » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:15 pm

Cover the world in biters with rapid expansion . So much that expanding costs huge amounts of resources. Now make resources dense but medium size. You will struggle to get what you need to survive and just expanding requires a large economy.

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