Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

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wiktor200573
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Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by wiktor200573 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:03 pm

at start i want to say sorry for my english

I think Iron is uses for everything but copper... copper is just nearly useless. if u dont want to build a megabase one ore should be enough for whole game. Just make it more usefull, even just for funny things like "battle toys" (i mean things like granades).

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by CJ5Boss » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:12 pm

Copper is used in pretty much everything electronic. This just means you need to balance out the ratios evenly, they have already been calculated and this is intentional.
"Artillery laser cannon shotgun uranium explosive turret tanks" would be the greatest thing ever.
You might try checking out my mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/CJs_QoL_Research_Ver1

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Serenity » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:24 pm

You don't need much copper at the beginning, but you need a lot more of it once you get into circuit production. Green circuits need copper and iron in a 3:2 ratio. And both red and blue circuits require lots of green

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by SpaghettiCrazy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:46 pm

I do think that copper needs more uses. I rarely have a problem that comes down to not enough copper.

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Koub » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:02 pm

With identical ressource settings, you get on the map the adequate ratio of copper vs iron compared to what you need to finish the game.
Moereover ... why should iron and copper be necessarily balanced in terms of quantity needed to play a game ?
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by live22morrow » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:06 am

In the early game, Iron is used the most, but when you get to the higher tier technologies, copper becomes much more in demand. A big megabase will probably be using similar amounts of both materials.

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Zavian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:28 am

wiktor200573 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:03 pm
I think Iron is uses for everything but copper... copper is just nearly useless. if u dont want to build a megabase one ore should be enough for whole game. Just make it more useful, even just for funny things like "battle toys" (i mean things like granades).
A base making 6x45 science flasks per minute to research something like the rocket silo uses 5298.75 copper per minute, and 6675.75 iron per minute, so copper is hardly useless. (In fact if you don't count the iron ore needed for steel, you would actually need more copper than iron).

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Matthias_Wlkp » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:47 pm

I had similar thoughts... until mid-late game, when I realized my factory is seriously starving copper...

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Shadak » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:04 pm

could it be possible that it depends what production paths you are going? I'm always short on iron. I still feed in the endgame from copper patches around the starting area while expanding for more iron...
but I use solar und accu, laser and bots. no train (I'm to dumb for them), only a bit steam in the endgame (to burn some coal patches and a lot of wood), till now also no nuclear

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by weaknespase » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 pm

Iron along with steel are very robust construction materials, copper have mostly electrical and chemical usages.

It's the same as asking why we don't use stone as much as iron. (Answer: We're not an ancient Maya civilization.)

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by Oglethorp » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:04 pm

I find im always lagging behind in copper/copper cable...each time i progress to a new circuit the demand is huge!

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by vanatteveldt » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:21 pm

live22morrow wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:06 am
In the early game, Iron is used the most, but when you get to the higher tier technologies, copper becomes much more in demand. A big megabase will probably be using similar amounts of both materials.
This. If your aim is to produce all science packs in equal quantities, you'll need only slightly more iron than copper (10% or so).

Module use also really changes the equation because the copper gets more multiplications due to the circuit chain. On my older (2016=.15?) base, it was 17 copper : 32 iron with full modules. It'll be different now, but it'll still skew towards more iron due to the circuits - especially blue circuits get productivity 5 times (smelt, cable, green, red, blue) for the copper (and the iron is less to start with and is multiplied only 4 times), while e.g. steel and gears only get multiplied twice (smelt + smelt/craft).

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by sha664817 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:27 am

might it be able to be conceivable that it depends what generation ways you are going? I'm in every case short on iron. Regardless I feed in the endgame from copper fixes around the beginning zone while extending for increasing press...

in any case, I utilize sun based und accu, laser, and bots. no train (I'm to stupid for them), just a bit steam in the endgame (to consume some coal patches and a great deal of wood), till now additionally no atomic

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by netmand » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:41 pm

The thought that iron is "too needed" may come from the progression of technology into recipes that include steel. This causes the demand for iron plate to increase five-fold. A similar progression on the copper side is cleverly hidden in the technology progression into electronics.

I did some copper/iron ratio calculation from a spreadsheet I've spent a lot of time on (normal mode, expensive may be the same but I haven't checked):
Science Pack 1: 0.5
Science Pack 2: 0.27
Military Science Pack: 0.27
Science Pack 3 : 0.35
Production Science Pack: 0.39
High Tech Science Pack: 1.68
Summed 1st 6 Science Packs: 0.76
(multiply the number of iron plate against the ratio to get the number of copper plate you need for the recipe, e.g. 10 iron plate x 0.5 = 5 copper plate to have enough copper plates and iron plates to make a number of Science Pack 1)

As you can see, the high tech science pack requires more copper than iron. So much so that when making 1 of each to feed your labs the ratio of copper to iron rises significantly.

I wouldn't call copper nearly useless.

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by RLS0812 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:11 am

I am currently eating 5.5k iron plate per minute, and 4.0k copper plate per minute.

I literally can not mine enough copper to keep up with my chip factories at the moment.

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Re: Iron is too needed and copper is nearly useless

Post by ballzak » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 am

RLS0812 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:11 am
I am currently eating 5.5k iron plate per minute, and 4.0k copper plate per minute.

I literally can not mine enough copper to keep up with my chip factories at the moment.
Agreed. It feels like 75% of your base is dedicated to producing green circuits.

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