0.17 Hype?

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Zemerson
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0.17 Hype?

Post by Zemerson » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:28 pm

Factorio Friday facts have so far made reference to 0.17 as a time when some features would be implemented, but the road-map has not been updated to reflect this.
Is 0.17 the new 1.0?

From FFF #212:
Finally the million dollar question is when will this be in game? Because it's quite a bit of work we already pushed the GUI update to 0.17. On the bright side, this mean 0.16 will come a bit sooner.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Zavian » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:35 pm

I'm too busy waiting for 0.16 to want to think about the wait for 0.17 yet.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Hellatze » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:30 am

i dont think 0.17 have worthy feature.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Koub » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:04 am

By looking so far in the future, you only miss the present.
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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by vanatteveldt » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:23 am

Koub wrote:By looking so far in the future, you only miss the present.
How Zen :)

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Koub wrote:By looking so far in the future, you only miss the present.
0.16 hype as well, obviously :).
Hellatze wrote:i dont think 0.17 have worthy feature.
My theory (I've said this a few other places as well, but I can't gaurentee it) is that other features will come in 0.17 as well (although personally the new GUI is pretty cool, and there are also some train features as well). It doesn't sound like the entire development team will be working on the GUI, so i assume they will be working on other features for 0.17 (there are also other possibilities as well, such as them working on a 0.18 or 1.1, or them working on a new game entirely).
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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Hellatze » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:22 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:
Koub wrote:By looking so far in the future, you only miss the present.
0.16 hype as well, obviously :).
Hellatze wrote:i dont think 0.17 have worthy feature.
My theory (I've said this a few other places as well, but I can't gaurentee it) is that other features will come in 0.17 as well (although personally the new GUI is pretty cool, and there are also some train features as well). It doesn't sound like the entire development team will be working on the GUI, so i assume they will be working on other features for 0.17 (there are also other possibilities as well, such as them working on a 0.18 or 1.1, or them working on a new game entirely).
that update aren't worth the hype. new GUI ? they should make it fix years ago, if they could change GUI again, why bother updating it again ?

train are minor feature in game, especially artillery train. since i never care about alien, let alone add it. they are annoying at most (alien).

if they want to make an update worth the hype, add space platform, Z plane, or interplanetary trade.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Miravlix » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 pm

I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Hellatze » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:26 pm

Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
your point ?

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Jap2.0 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
But... who doesn't want nicer-looking crayons?
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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by JackGruff » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:37 pm

0.999 can be the new 1.0. These are amazing developers and they deserve all the time in the world.

kovarex can release 1.0 on his deathbed if he feels so inclined.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Raveman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:36 pm

Hellatze wrote:
Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
your point ?
The point is that Factorio in the current state is just a simulation, not quite a game yet. There's no end goal and bitters are just a pain and not a part of the bigger picture (which they should be in my opinion). A nice addition in 0.17 would be to add someting to work toward beside launching a rocket (which could be done in 2 hours).

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Trudel » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:04 am

Raveman wrote:
Hellatze wrote:
Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
your point ?
The point is that Factorio in the current state is just a simulation, not quite a game yet. There's no end goal and bitters are just a pain and not a part of the bigger picture (which they should be in my opinion). A nice addition in 0.17 would be to add someting to work toward beside launching a rocket (which could be done in 2 hours).
What people define as a game tends to vary a lot. In my view, Factorio is definetly a game and would still be one even without "launching the rocket". By your definition, how many other sims wouldn't be games either? Furtheron, speedruns have nothing to do with this question.
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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Gergely » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:20 pm

You know... when I see developers talk about something I can have eventually, I either feel like it will be several years later that is not worth waiting at the moment or that I am just being spoiled of something that will happen soon enough.

0.16 will perform changes that make my previous saves glithed. That's why I am hyped for 0.16 because then I can (again) start long-term gameplay sessions. But I won't be playing Factorio 0.16 until it becomes stable. But then again, what if they still do something in 0.17 that messes it up?

I had a save file in 0.13 that I carried over to 0.14 only to find that it still became glitched. (very slightly) They can make undocumented minor changes to the map-gen for ballancing reasons. I don't even think of continuing it in 0.15 because they changed a lot of early game content that carries through. I literally refer to that save as "expired" even though it successfully ate 100+ hours of my free time.

The game is in early access for a reason. Nothing is fixed. Every update somewhat breaks saves from the previous one. Is it worth starting a new game right now when 0.16 introduces that sweet sweet new world gen which most likely breaks all current saves? In 0.17 they might only update their gui. Something similar happened to the multiplayer mode in 0.14 thankfully, behind the scenes.

I don't care about waiting. I have plenty of other things to do. I am not that easily addicted. They might as well spend six more years to make Factorio the ultimate realisation of what a PC game should be about... while declaring war on what this community is "used to" in the game's current state.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Bilka » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:36 pm

Gergely wrote:Is it worth starting a new game right now when 0.16 introduces that sweet sweet new world gen which most likely breaks all current saves? In 0.17 they might only update their gui. Something similar happened to the multiplayer mode in 0.14 thankfully, behind the scenes.
Saves never break. You can always still play them. And the update to 0.16 will really only make it so that there is a "seam" in your world gen, and that's it. Your factory will still work. Both 0.13 and 0.15 were much bigger updates than that.
Gergely wrote: while declaring war on what this community is "used to"
What are you talking about here?
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Gergely » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:04 pm

Bilka wrote:
Gergely wrote: while declaring war on what this community is "used to"
What are you talking about here?
fff-191

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Koub » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:58 pm

Bilka wrote:
Gergely wrote:Is it worth starting a new game right now when 0.16 introduces that sweet sweet new world gen which most likely breaks all current saves? In 0.17 they might only update their gui. Something similar happened to the multiplayer mode in 0.14 thankfully, behind the scenes.
Saves never break. You can always still play them. And the update to 0.16 will really only make it so that there is a "seam" in your world gen, and that's it. Your factory will still work. Both 0.13 and 0.15 were much bigger updates than that.
This true and false at once. You can always load a save from the two or three previous major versions.
But the factory will most probably not work upon loading because, at some time, there were changes that altered something.

Amongst these changes :
- Belt optimizations that changed the way items are dropped on a belt from inserters in some cases
- Belt changes that moved the "drop point" of items at the end of the belt from one tile after the end of belt to the last belt tile
- Boilers that changed geometry, steam engines that changed steam produced
- Turrets that changed size to be all 4x4
- ...
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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Raveman » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:47 pm

Trudel wrote:
Raveman wrote:
Hellatze wrote:
Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
your point ?
The point is that Factorio in the current state is just a simulation, not quite a game yet. There's no end goal and bitters are just a pain and not a part of the bigger picture (which they should be in my opinion). A nice addition in 0.17 would be to add someting to work toward beside launching a rocket (which could be done in 2 hours).
What people define as a game tends to vary a lot. In my view, Factorio is definetly a game and would still be one even without "launching the rocket". By your definition, how many other sims wouldn't be games either? Furtheron, speedruns have nothing to do with this question.
While I do agree that it's a game in the sense that it provides enteirtainment, it fails as a game when it comes to providing goal and endgame. Don't get me wrong, I really like playing it, but I always reach a point where everything seams pointless. After launching the rocket the only thing you can do is setting yourself goals... which in my opinion is a fail for a game. The game should be providing me with goals to work toward (which wouldn't prevent anyone from setting their own goal).

I want to build a megabase, but I want it for a purpose. I want to research all techs, but I want them to be usefull. I want to build weapons and tanks, but I want them to be relevant. For me it all comes down to the "now what" empty feeling that I get once the rocket is launched.

We don't need more techs, more entities or better graphics or gui, we need endgame content. That's all.

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Gergely » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:52 pm

Raveman wrote:The point is that Factorio in the current state is just a simulation, not quite a game yet.
Are you kidding me? Factorio is not a simulation. Have you seen a real life person stuffing several oil refineries in his very pocket?

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Re: 0.17 Hype?

Post by Trudel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:33 am

Raveman wrote:
Trudel wrote:
Raveman wrote:
Hellatze wrote:
Miravlix wrote:I think Kerbal Space Program, Factorio and other things like it, is basically like crayons.

I can eat the crayons or create pictures and tons of other stuff, but it's not a game.

So you want me to be hyped for them changing the way my crayons look, when I'm not running into huge problems with the current shape?

Naah, the real bombshell is that they might be adding a game to my crayons, but that seems like a theoretical 0.16 feature.
your point ?
The point is that Factorio in the current state is just a simulation, not quite a game yet. There's no end goal and bitters are just a pain and not a part of the bigger picture (which they should be in my opinion). A nice addition in 0.17 would be to add someting to work toward beside launching a rocket (which could be done in 2 hours).
What people define as a game tends to vary a lot. In my view, Factorio is definetly a game and would still be one even without "launching the rocket". By your definition, how many other sims wouldn't be games either? Furtheron, speedruns have nothing to do with this question.
While I do agree that it's a game in the sense that it provides enteirtainment, it fails as a game when it comes to providing goal and endgame. Don't get me wrong, I really like playing it, but I always reach a point where everything seams pointless. After launching the rocket the only thing you can do is setting yourself goals... which in my opinion is a fail for a game. The game should be providing me with goals to work toward (which wouldn't prevent anyone from setting their own goal).

I want to build a megabase, but I want it for a purpose. I want to research all techs, but I want them to be usefull. I want to build weapons and tanks, but I want them to be relevant. For me it all comes down to the "now what" empty feeling that I get once the rocket is launched.

We don't need more techs, more entities or better graphics or gui, we need endgame content. That's all.
I see what you mean. I'm close to launching the rocket in my first game. It will have taken me somewhere between 50 and 60 hours to "win" and I allready know that I'll stop playing that save afterwards. While it would be nice to have more goals to work towards after that, I don't mind that there aren't any (yet). Why? I'm allready planing to do a at least two more runs (try building a main bus and a train world after that). I assume that will take me at least another 40 hours each. Most games will neither take as long to finish nor offer the replayability Factorio has.

What kind of goals do you have in mind that wouldn't be arbitrary numbers (produce X amount of X per hour, kill X amount of biters, etc.)? Launching the rocket has some meaning, in the sense of a way of getting you of the planet, at least.
Last edited by Trudel on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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