Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post all other topics which do not belong to any other category.
milo christiansen
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:11 pm

Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by milo christiansen » Fri May 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Currently if you want to split a belt into it's component lanes you need to use a splitter, then sideload onto underground belts pieces facing the right directions. This feels cumbersome and unintuitive.

Personally I think splitters need a GUI that allows you to turn lanes on and off, but really anything less hacky would be great.

Am I the only person who hates the current "solution" or is it a widespread issue that no one talks about much?

AcolyteOfRocket
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by AcolyteOfRocket » Fri May 19, 2017 7:34 pm

It's a bit hard to hate something that you don't need to do in your own game if you don't want to.

I must admit I think the belt-splitting properties of UG belts are a bit naff and I don't use them, but I consider it my own taste rather than anything the game designers should fix. They may fix it anyway as part of my dislike of it is the impression that it is a "feature" that might one day get cleaned out. But they are more likely going to leave it in and I won't mind that either.

I don't like building on deposits for the same trivial reasons, its just not my thing, but each to his own I say....

But I do walk on cracks in the pavement as long as both sides are reasonably level ;-)

gudge
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by gudge » Fri May 19, 2017 7:37 pm

I don't hate it.
If we got a "smart splitter" as a researchable technology, that could be pretty cool.
But in some sense, solving these problems is part of the fun of the game.

sniderthanyou
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:43 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by sniderthanyou » Fri May 19, 2017 7:44 pm

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:It's a bit hard to hate something that you don't need to do in your own game if you don't want to.
I feel the same way. There are so many ways to solve the problem - filter inserters, logistic robots, or just don't put two things on the same belt - that there's no reason to hate it.

I don't like the idea of underground belt braiding, so I don't do it. And I enjoy playing the game every bit as much as I would if belt braiding didn't exist.

tamanous
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:35 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by tamanous » Fri May 19, 2017 7:50 pm

gudge wrote:I don't hate it.
If we got a "smart splitter" as a researchable technology, that could be pretty cool.
But in some sense, solving these problems is part of the fun of the game.
Couldn't say it better.

milo christiansen
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by milo christiansen » Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 pm

I guess I wouldn't dislike it so if it wasn't for the fact that it is so useful, and there isn't a workable way to do without (that doesn't involve way too many inserters). Frankly there is no other way to make an input balancer (pull evenly from both input lanes even when output is being used unevenly).

I generally like the "puzzle" art of the game, but not having any real tools for managing belt lanes just sucks. There are plenty of tools for managing full belts (the splitter and a little creativity is really all you need), but nothing similar for single lanes.

netmand
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:20 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by netmand » Fri May 19, 2017 8:21 pm

This topic goes along with my pet-peeve about inserters placing far instead of close (or being able to choose) which are a couple of the reasons why I don't favor belts and move to robotics when I can.

I sympathize with you milo christiansen, but not so far as being hateful and calling the way it is suck-y.

User avatar
TruePikachu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 574
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:39 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by TruePikachu » Sat May 20, 2017 6:04 am

I use UG splitting all the time, and it is an important part in many of my designs. That said, it is an ugly solution in that it uses an underground belt piece, which can create issues when dealing with other pieces of underground belt. One thing I'd like eventually is an entity which does the UG split, but without the whole part of needing an underground belt, but it isn't really a priority right now, since the current equivalent (UG splitting) works fine enough.

British_Petroleum
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:21 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by British_Petroleum » Sat May 20, 2017 10:46 am

It's a graphical bug imo. Underground belts don't look like they should block half the belt. There was a mod a few versions ago that fixed this

User avatar
nemostein
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by nemostein » Sat May 20, 2017 11:42 am

The devs "curated" this solution as "the one true solution", but it really looks as ugly as a ugly hack can look.
As I understand, another entity would be ideal.
"I'd say the main bottleneck is sleep." - AndrewIRL

Tekky
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:53 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Tekky » Mon May 22, 2017 2:48 pm

I also agree that underground belts being used as belt lane splitters is very ugly.

I like it that this feature exists, because it is an important feature. However, this feature should be integrated into the game in some other way, using a different entity (for example a programmable splitter).

Related threads:
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=32665 Make Underground Belt Magic More Visible
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=42620 Make underground belts work like underground pipes
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30245 About underground belt trick (lane swapping): art?
Last edited by Tekky on Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Deadly-Bagel
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:12 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon May 22, 2017 3:12 pm

IMO lane blockers should be used so infrequently that it would just be clutter to me. I'm happy with a few spots in my factory having ugly belts if it means we don't have another almost-useless item to deal with. Also giving Splitters this functionality you'll come to realise simplifies it just a bit too much and you end up with bad practices. Splitting a lane out of a belt should only be done in certain circumstances, not as common practice

However I agree that the current solution is a pain. I'd suggest a method of "disconnecting" underground belts so that you can have two pointing in opposite directions. This would allow you to have a pair of Underground Belts directly after a Splitter. This would tidy the solutions but not make them trivial or encourage their frequent use.
Money might be the root of all evil, but ignorance is the heart.

pib
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:43 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by pib » Mon May 22, 2017 3:44 pm

Personally it does feel very unsatisfying to split belts using the underground belt; but it is extremely useful to be able to do it which put player in a bad spot. I honestly kind of wish the underground belts could be be sideloaded at all - to me the graphics justify that kind of behavior. But given how useful it is; there would be complaints that it was removed. I would like to see filter splitters which would feel less cheesey to use.

Terukio
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Terukio » Mon May 22, 2017 4:18 pm

I agree that it feels weird to split a belt in this way, however it is another option. If you feel this is not intuitive, then you aren't limited to underground belts. You can use filter inserters early game the take care of this. Use as many as needed to move the half belt of material that you are trying to move. There aren't many other uses for filter inserters as stack filter inserters quickly take over when you have the infrastructure to support them, so this gives them a nice niche to be used.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Ranakastrasz » Mon May 22, 2017 4:34 pm

Its an ascended bug, I don't care what anyone else says.
Its counter-intuitive, rediculous, and somehow doing it properly is considered by the developers to be a bad idea.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Pre-Fusion - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Mineable rock - Vanilla
Easy Refineries -V16
Rocket range - V15
Combat Revamp - Restin'
Shield Pulse - Working on

Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3877
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Koub » Mon May 22, 2017 4:34 pm

The real question is : why do you mix two different ressources on the same belt if you want to separate them later ? And the subsidiary question is : why would you need a lane splitter, when you have means to do it with filter inserters ?
A lane splitter would be an additional convenience, but is by no means mandatory.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

Selvek
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 4:04 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Selvek » Mon May 22, 2017 4:53 pm

Koub wrote:The real question is : why do you mix two different ressources on the same belt if you want to separate them later ?
You want to manufacture A and B. A requires X and Y, B requires X and Z. There are many, many, MANY ways to lay out the factory, but one solution is to run X and Y past the A assemblers, then block the lane carrying Y and side load in Z, then run the belt which now carries X and Z past the B assemblers.
Koub wrote: And the subsidiary question is : why would you need a lane splitter, when you have means to do it with filter inserters ?
Getting the output belt full with filter inserters is pretty unwieldy - you need several inserters and you need to have them place onto two belts initially which get merged to avoid the poor compression of inserters.

Conclusion:
Yeah, this "magic" behavior of underground belts is a bit weird, and definitely annoying to use sometimes, but it works fine and is very useful. Of course, if I were a factory engineer and had control of the R&D team developing belt components, I would long since have added a simple lane splitter component - its operation is clear and easy, it's design is trivial, and it would save space in many circumstances. For a real factory, I think including that component would be a no-brainer (of course, for a real factory, digging an underground belt below existing structures would suck - a lot - and belt weaving would defy physics :))

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Ranakastrasz » Mon May 22, 2017 5:11 pm

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=6227
http://factoriomods.net/belt-utilities-mod/

I have trouble seeing how this is a bad thing, at all. It should be trivial to implement, looks great, and I can't understand why we have to keep using this hack.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Pre-Fusion - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Mineable rock - Vanilla
Easy Refineries -V16
Rocket range - V15
Combat Revamp - Restin'
Shield Pulse - Working on

Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3877
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Koub » Mon May 22, 2017 5:27 pm

More belt/splitter/filterers/things utilities have been suggested numerous times. I'm sure the devs have seen them all, several times.
In the end, the devs will make the game they think is the best. I think past some point, it is counterproductive to insist in trying to convince people if they have made their choice in all conscience. Right now, we have many choices :
1) not to mix lanes
2) mix them, and filter with stack filter inserters
3) mix them and use the ugly underground belt trick
4) use bots
5) if one can't live with such a feature, there are always mods.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am

Re: Underground belt lane splitting, anyone else hate it?

Post by Ranakastrasz » Mon May 22, 2017 5:39 pm

Problem is you can't make a mod that does that anymore, ever since the belt optimization.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Pre-Fusion - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Mineable rock - Vanilla
Easy Refineries -V16
Rocket range - V15
Combat Revamp - Restin'
Shield Pulse - Working on

Post Reply

Return to “General discussion”