Resource depletion or infinite resources?

[Teurlinx]

It could also be tech related. Have different kind of oil fields which need different tech to pump oil out. Maybe the standard technique only allows 30% to be mined before it gets to the 0.1/s stage. Then researching better techniques will allow you to mine more until it runs 'dry'.

Also it would be nice if the oil fields would be a gas / oil mixture.

[Chthon]

Now that is a nifty idea. I have had to abandon a few games because I never got enough resources to survive leaving my base, and I upped the resources. Then I ended up with so many resources I maxed out the tech tree without moving, so restarted again. Currently looks like I will end up stuck again. Of course, in my case it is also partially due to buffing the biters quite a bit, so my own fault there. But a way to renew resources or attempt to carve a path to a new area would be quite useful.

Another possibility would be something like a deep-core drill which lets you create a new resource node of low richness every now and then. Limit it to being placed where there was ore before and just bring more to the surface, more or less. One square of low richness would be far from overpowered with a long cooldown, yet would still potentially allow a way out of situations that are currently impossible.

I recently started a free play where I was dropped in an area with excellent copper and iron resources, however there was no coal at all that wasn't being guarded by a large biter base. I had to run east for about 2 in game days to find any coal at all that was not immediately being copper.

The coal had a great supply of iron, but poor copper, and no water anywhere. I spent my first few days there mining what I could and searching for a place to slap down some power and tech.

About another day's travel east I found a lake with a fair amount of coal, some iron to the north, but it was too close to a small biter base. A day's travel south was a small coal deposit, iron deposit, and copper deposit, but it was right on top of a small biter base. I chose to go east, knowing I would be hurting for copper eventually, but I would be able to tech up out of pistols and get some armor and better production going.

I shortly found out however machine guns aren't very effective against biter spawners, only the small biters they spawn. It requires almost 90 clips to just kill one base. Unable to destroy a base with machine guns, I came up with a different plan. I built a shotgun and several turrets. I got close enough to the spawner that I could hit it with the shotgun, cleared out the defenders, and placed a few turrets with ammo to defend me while I took out the spawner with a shotgun. Far more effective.

At this point I've cleared out the smaller base to the north with 2 spawners, the small one to the south, and 2 small bases where I started. I am also drafting plans, and collecting materials to reclaim the resources where I started, however I've found there are 2 large bases just past where I had scouted, so heavier defenses will be necessary.

I am still in red tech, seeing as I don't have much room at the moment in my small area. Scanning found multiple large bases a short ways away.

Hopefully I'll be ready to move once my small copper deposit is depleted. I've heavily entrenched that area, and despite the fact that it is just a small burner outpost far away from any biter nests, the fact that I found out my main area pollutes a large base across the lake, the retaliation heads straight through my copper mine first.

In short, I like the limited resources. It gets you thinking of how to handle your current situation as no two starts will be the same. It can push you to acts of desperation, and possibly glory. It also makes you have to think, do I want to expand as fast as possible, or should I lay low, expanding slowly for now until I'm ready for that next expansion?

I'm playing this map with 100% stock settings. Oil is everywhere, but I can't use it yet. There are also plenty of small stone patches so walls aren't a problem. It was just finding the initial coal that turned troublesome. Note that 2 days travel time doesn't mean I found it in 2 game days. I did quite a bit of exploration, and when I finally got some iron, I was down to my last clip from random encounters.

[eduran]

How about adding an 'infinite' richness setting for the map generator? That would allow everyone to play the game the way they like it best.

[sciencemile]

An idea about this, based on real-life extraction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraction ... y_recovery

Reduce the flow of a depleted oil patch to 1/10 of it's current amount. However, new technology allows Secondary Oil Extraction; requiring an advanced oil pump and and the need to pump in water. This will give a second life to the depleted oil field, until it becomes Depleted Oil Field (II), providing not even a fraction of Oil.

However, new technology would allow Tertiary Oil Extraction using an even more Advanced Pump, and the need to pump in water that's been heated by boilers. This is the third and final life to an oil patch, and once that's depleted it will disappear from the map entirely like the other resources.

[Zimposity]

I prefer the idea of not having infinite resources as:

- Firstly, it adds an extra challenge to the game, you can't just camp in an area forever building up your defences you have to actually move to find more resources and
- Secondly, it gives you the opportunity to use trains which are so much fun. I've only been playing for a little while and I did the campaign where you have to ship resources via trains from an ore-field far away and it is just so satisfying having a fully automated rail system that delivers tonnes of ore to your base ever minute. At one point I was overflowing with iron ore, not because I couldn't smelt it fast enough but because I couldn't use the iron plates I was producing fast enough! Trains are amazing and the best bit about them is the way they just mow down any biters in your way!

[squisher]

Hum, nobody's mentioned blueprints in this thread? I'm pretty sure that is one of the primary purposes of blueprints, its another form of automation - it helps you automate your new ore locations. Once I've set up my drilling and smelting operations at my first gigantic-sized ore patch (not the starter patches), I make a blueprint for the mining operation, another blueprint for the smelting operation, and optionally a third for a railway hub.

When it comes time to hit a new mining site, it's pretty quick. I bring out a roboport, power lines, storage chest, a stack of constructor bots, and everything the blueprint needs (it says right on the blueprint the total amount of items needed). If you've got an assembler for everything, you dont even need to run around and collect the items required by the blueprint, you can just set your character logistics while in your main base and your bots will deliver everything to you.

One more thing, when creating the drilling blueprint, I temporarily remove the drills before creating the blueprint, because otherwise you can't place the blueprint if there is no ore under any of the drills.

[TGS]

Now that is a nifty idea. I have had to abandon a few games because I never got enough resources to survive leaving my base, and I upped the resources. Then I ended up with so many resources I maxed out the tech tree without moving, so restarted again. Currently looks like I will end up stuck again. Of course, in my case it is also partially due to buffing the biters quite a bit, so my own fault there. But a way to renew resources or attempt to carve a path to a new area would be quite useful.

Another possibility would be something like a deep-core drill which lets you create a new resource node of low richness every now and then. Limit it to being placed where there was ore before and just bring more to the surface, more or less. One square of low richness would be far from overpowered with a long cooldown, yet would still potentially allow a way out of situations that are currently impossible.

I recently started a free play where I was dropped in an area with excellent copper and iron resources, however there was no coal at all that wasn't being guarded by a large biter base. I had to run east for about 2 in game days to find any coal at all that was not immediately being copper.

The coal had a great supply of iron, but poor copper, and no water anywhere. I spent my first few days there mining what I could and searching for a place to slap down some power and tech.

About another day's travel east I found a lake with a fair amount of coal, some iron to the north, but it was too close to a small biter base. A day's travel south was a small coal deposit, iron deposit, and copper deposit, but it was right on top of a small biter base. I chose to go east, knowing I would be hurting for copper eventually, but I would be able to tech up out of pistols and get some armor and better production going.

I shortly found out however machine guns aren't very effective against biter spawners, only the small biters they spawn. It requires almost 90 clips to just kill one base. Unable to destroy a base with machine guns, I came up with a different plan. I built a shotgun and several turrets. I got close enough to the spawner that I could hit it with the shotgun, cleared out the defenders, and placed a few turrets with ammo to defend me while I took out the spawner with a shotgun. Far more effective.

At this point I've cleared out the smaller base to the north with 2 spawners, the small one to the south, and 2 small bases where I started. I am also drafting plans, and collecting materials to reclaim the resources where I started, however I've found there are 2 large bases just past where I had scouted, so heavier defenses will be necessary.

I am still in red tech, seeing as I don't have much room at the moment in my small area. Scanning found multiple large bases a short ways away.

Hopefully I'll be ready to move once my small copper deposit is depleted. I've heavily entrenched that area, and despite the fact that it is just a small burner outpost far away from any biter nests, the fact that I found out my main area pollutes a large base across the lake, the retaliation heads straight through my copper mine first.

In short, I like the limited resources. It gets you thinking of how to handle your current situation as no two starts will be the same. It can push you to acts of desperation, and possibly glory. It also makes you have to think, do I want to expand as fast as possible, or should I lay low, expanding slowly for now until I'm ready for that next expansion?

I'm playing this map with 100% stock settings. Oil is everywhere, but I can't use it yet. There are also plenty of small stone patches so walls aren't a problem. It was just finding the initial coal that turned troublesome. Note that 2 days travel time doesn't mean I found it in 2 game days. I did quite a bit of exploration, and when I finally got some iron, I was down to my last clip from random encounters.

It's funny you say this because this actually somewhat highlights another issue that doesn't actually have anything to do with the resources themselves directly. It has more to do with the biters and nests. Specifically with how they're spawned when moving outward. I think it is often a bit too random to be safe for the player to move outward at all in early tech. I mean I've had in the past biter nests almost surrounding me (On default map settings) where the nests themselves weren't all that significant, but they had enough big worms to make attacking them a death wish. That isn't fun. I think there should be an option to change the spawning behavior in the game so that it's the same no matter where you are on the map. I think it currently changes as you move outward from spawn so that the biters and nests become more frequent and maybe even more powerful. Which doesn't work well if you start with a bad resource spawn area.

[Akrai]

i dont know if it have been posted but we could create 2 modes: a sandobx with unlimited resources (like a creative mode) with pacific mode, it would be just for learning tech trees or economic strategies, and a second mode that have unlimited resources but the bitters would organize themselves to be more and more biggers and the attacks waves more and more aggresive and powerful and their bitters "homes" would grow to have more and more spawners together, which converts the game in an extrem fortress defend

with unlimited resources i mean that an ore doesn't decrease its resources number when minning it