Tech tree Flaw?

[Boxxer1]

Hi,

I'm a relatively new player and am currently trying the challenge of finishing the game without crafting anything in hand. Apart from crating minimally to get the assembler researched, I have built everything using assemblers since, that is until I needed blue science at least. As far as I can tell it is impossible to craft an oil refinery as you need the level 3 assembler to do so, however you cannot research it without blue science, and you cannot get blue science without plastic, which you need an oil refinery for.

It's a trivial problem in all fairness and only arises when arbitrary limits are put in place but I figure that it would make sense to be able to climb the tech tree without crafting from hand once assemblers are introduced. More situations similar may arise later but I haven't got that far yet to find out.

Thoughts?

[lpw]

The common answer is to craft one oil refinery by hand, just like you needed to craft thinks in the beginning by hand.

[SirLANsalot]

The common answer is to craft one oil refinery by hand, just like you needed to craft thinks in the beginning by hand.

This, the cheevo you are after is Finnish the game with less then 111 items crafted by hand, and craft more by assembler then by hand. Building the two axes and the one lab, 10 bottles and the one refinery is way under that limit.

[Daid]

You need to hand craft at least 100 items, see:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26127

The oil refinery is the "surprise" extra hand craft that you need to do mid game. Then I would recommend setting up a quick plastic production, which you will demolish after researching advanced oil processing and the 3th assembler. So you can go full scale with oil after that.

[quadrox]

I think you guys are missing the OPs point - he is well aware that you can hand-craft the refinery.

His point is that the tech-tree should not have circular dependencies like that - and frankly I agree.

[Deadly-Bagel]

It's not a circular dependency, you don't NEED the t3 assembler to build the refinery.

There isn't really any alternative though, the t3 assembler needs speed modules to build to make them less trivial. If you remove all requirement for oil what would they be made out of?

[quadrox]

It's not a circular dependency, you don't NEED the t3 assembler to build the refinery.

Well obviously the game works as it is, so technically you are correct. However, a game that is all about automating things should not suddenly require you to handcraft something. And therefore, if you disregard handcrafting (because it should not be required) it is a circular dependency.

There isn't really any alternative though, the t3 assembler needs speed modules to build to make them less trivial. If you remove all requirement for oil what would they be made out of?

I don't have any alternative proposals at this time (given time I am sure I could come up with something), but just because I don't have a solution doesn't make it any less of a flaw.

[Deadly-Bagel]

What, you've never started a project, got halfway through and thought "rats, I hadn't considered this particular aspect" and needed to manually sort it out? Handcrafting is still a part of the game, don't see why it shouldn't come back to it.

[OdinYggd]

There's been complaints about blue science being too far of a jump up from green science for a while now.

However I can tell you that it is possible to achieve lazy bastard with exactly 100 handcrafts. You just have to plan ahead a little, and be patient waiting for materials in the early game.

So no, this is not a bad thing. It certainly seems a barrier, but by itself it is just an obstacle that is fairly easy to overcome.