My general Impressions after coming back to the game.

[tonberrytoby]

So, I hadn't touched this game for several months, and started playing again last weekend.
I am seriously addicted again.

A few comments:
I played through the new campaign, and I thought the last two levels were pretty bad.

In level 3 ( the railway level) you have to build up a railway network, but the information and hints in the old base structure is clearly insufficient.
In fact I don't think it is even possible to build a functioning railway in the place where the destroyed one was, because the turn loops need to pass through each other in the main base and cut through the enemies' aggro radius in the outposts.
If you hadn't played this before, you probably even will stare confused at your setup when trying to get it to run because it isn't obvious the turn loops are even needed. Manual operated trains don't need them, and most big railway games abstract those away too.
You really need to put an intact example turn loop into the existing base.
Also 2500 Piercing bullets is a ridiculous amount, you are pretty much guaranteed to have to wait around while twiddling your thumbs in this level.

In level 4 the whole chemistry system is insufficiently explained. This just needs a lot more explanation. Especially the fact that refineries stop production if their output slots are full. It took me quite some time to figure out why my setup wasn't doing anything.

Now that we actually need lots of pipes, the fact that you can't place pipes containing different fluids next to each other becomes annoying.
Especially as the resulting contamination can be extremely tedious to clean up.

So then I went on to freeplay.
The start is still pretty slow, I am still lobbying for a fast start option that gives you enough resources to start directly with electric equipment.

The new logistics bot system is pretty great. The construction bots are just amazing.
But I noticed that requester chests can take forever to get deconstructed. For some reason there seems to be only on bot assigned to haul all those hundreds of thing out of there.

Rockets seem to have become pretty much useless. It seems to be much more efficient to run in and blast away with with your shotgun if the enemy base has spawners or big worms.

[Drury]

From what I gather the devs want to avoid hand-holding and outright telling you everything, including that trains can be built to turn around at the end of the line without any need for loops, letting you figure it out yourself instead. The level is even designed to show you rubble of a shuttle system that worked without loops to put you on the right track (no pun intended), those aggro nests are there to make you think about how they made it happen, but apparently that's still not enough.

If you find your factory insufficiently fast to produce 2500 rounds, you might want to do something about it

I don't think Factorio will ever market itself as a game that doesn't require any brainpower to play, it's all about figuring things out, it's a puzzle game. Jumping into it thinking you'll be building huge super efficient factories right away without ever needing to stop for a while and think how to overcome obstacles is a bit nearsighted.

Like yes, if we were talking about a F2P casual shooter like Team Fortress 2 (don't get me wrong, I love TF2 big time for what it is as well as Factorio), then yes, I'd agree that the game's tutorial is insufficient and needs to be more explanatory to ease the experience for new players, even though it already covers the basics quite well. But Factorio was never meant to be easy for new players. It hates new player's guts. And it's up to the new player to let it win or actively try and beat it.

[ssilk]

There are no turn-loops needed.
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... se_driving
But I admit, it could be useful to add a finished train, and a nearly finished station on the other side into that scenario.

Yes, your second point did cost me also some time. A visible sign over the output, green/red... or lamps - something, which symbolize the internal tanks, so that you get it much sooner. But I think not much more help is needed. And at the beginning it is a bit frustrating to make all those pipes.
The pipes are discussed very much and I'm not satisfied with the current solution, too. I wanted to have a much longer version, above the ground, other under the ground. The current solution is in my eyes a compromise to keep it well playable.

And to deconstruction: I wrote it on a post-it and forgot to make a ticket out of it.

[tonberrytoby]

Now that I think about it, the best way to make this more discoverable would be to make the train really unable to go in reverse even in manual operation.
This way you can just make a double headed train there and try things out this way.

[ssilk]

Might be an option, on the other side it is really needed, if you made more complicated networks and one train gets stuck, because you forgot a signal (or placed too much).

Hmm. Well, the train system is one of those things, which are complicated and the reading of docs is currently needed.

[slay_mithos]

I tend to make my trains wait at the stations when I only have one line, then make "stops" on the way when the traffic grows, before upgrading to multiple lines, usually one-way ones, multiple of them when nearing very frequented stations.


Trains do take a while to understand, there are many detail that are easy to miss, like the need to put at least one strait rail between curved ones, that a train can outright kill you, even at low speed, that trains can transport a lot, but only if designed correctly, that they can go really fast, but only if you can provide at least one locomotive for every two wagons...

But at the same time, they have so much potential, and when they are properly integrated to logistic networks, they will become a must-have.
In the mean time, learning how to use them properly, is a good way to make long way transportations, be it for yourself or for resources from remote bases to your factory.
With trees everywhere, rails are a much safer way to travel long distances than cars anyway, and with a shotgun, you can definitely build your rails while inside your locomotive, making it a quite a bit faster than on foot, with a quick way home once you are to your destination (tested that myself, works really well).

[kovarex]

One of the things I consider is to remove the campaign (apart the demo) completly and just add lot of interactive tutorial "rooms" that would be available when you do something.

Got first train stop? You are offered to get to tutorial room #51 where you can learn about basics of building automated rails in very fast peace and interactive way. These could be presented as memories of your past, and you could return to any of those unlocked rooms.

[Drury]

One of the things I consider is to remove the campaign (apart the demo) completly and just add lot of interactive tutorial "rooms" that would be available when you do something.

Got first train stop? You are offered to get to tutorial room #51 where you can learn about basics of building automated rails in very fast peace and interactive way. These could be presented as memories of your past, and you could return to any of those unlocked rooms.

Oh, this reminds me of something similar in Mark of the Ninja, they were called "challenge rooms" and basically they were hidden puzzle rooms based on a certain mechanic the game introduced in that level. Besides being a fun refreshment, they also taught you everything about the mechanic, without hand-holding you through the process - they were puzzles, you had to figure everything out yourself in a safe environment.

They were also presented as memories of your training, and always took place in a dojo, even if you found the "room" inside a vent in a skyscraper. I really liked those, they helped build the world and added to storytelling, and similarly they'd really help with a potential backstory of Factorio. Imagine visiting futuristic cities of the Earth in your memories, the rail networks they had, the clean, enclosed factories without any dust, dead trees or biters...

[ssilk]

One of the things I consider is to remove the campaign (apart the demo) completly and just add lot of interactive tutorial "rooms" that would be available when you do something.

Got first train stop? You are offered to get to tutorial room #51 where you can learn about basics of building automated rails in very fast peace and interactive way. These could be presented as memories of your past, and you could return to any of those unlocked rooms.

Like that very much, because some ideas are from me .
I would call them dojo, because "tutorial" is such an old concept and points every time back to the fact, that it is a game, not so real. But it should be real.
Sometimes dreams feels more real than the reality. And so I think the people in the future have the ability to train themselves in "dreams". So here: you can switch into a "dojo-dream", when you learned enough about something in the "real world", repeated something enough, etc. then the brain-extension can create a simulation. And then you can switch back to this dream every time you want.

The difference should be also visible: in the dreams the things look a bit differently. I think currently to something, which looks a bit like Tron. Only blue grass, all very clean and the grid, like when the game is paused. Nothing complicated.

[Alfdaur]

One of the things I consider is to remove the campaign (apart the demo) completly and just add lot of interactive tutorial "rooms" that would be available when you do something.

No please, don't do this.

I like campaigns.

Also 2500 Piercing bullets is a ridiculous amount, you are pretty much guaranteed to have to wait around while twiddling your thumbs in this level.

I totaly agree with this point after just completing the campaign.

Now that we actually need lots of pipes, the fact that you can't place pipes containing different fluids next to each other becomes annoying.
Especially as the resulting contamination can be extremely tedious to clean up.

The new logistics bot system is pretty great. The construction bots are just amazing.

Rockets seem to have become pretty much useless. It seems to be much more efficient to run in and blast away with with your shotgun if the enemy base has spawners or big worms.

Yeah, these things are pretty anoying.

[AlexPhoenix]

Now that we actually need lots of pipes, the fact that you can't place pipes containing different fluids next to each other becomes annoying.
Especially as the resulting contamination can be extremely tedious to clean up.

yes, this is it.
i hope that pipes will act like belts.