Is there a problem with upgraded Turrets and ticks?

[Peter34]

This reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... _upgrades/

... says that you shouldn't upgrade your Gun Turrets and Laser Turrets to the highest tiers of RoF upgrades, because the ticks system means you won't get any benefit from it at all.

Is that actually true?

[Peppe]

This reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... _upgrades/

... says that you shouldn't upgrade your Gun Turrets and Laser Turrets to the highest tiers of RoF upgrades, because the ticks system means you won't get any benefit from it at all.

Is that actually true?

In .13 laser turrets received an increased buffer, so they should be able to shoot at full speed.

Bullet turrrets still gain nothing from bullet speed after level 4 where they fire every 3 ticks. Need ~300% to actually reach the next full tick breakpoint and fire every 2 ticks.
Machine gun same no benefit after 4. Defender capsule benefit every level of bullet speed.

[Qon]

In .13 laser turrets received an increased buffer, so they should be able to shoot at full speed.

In 0.13.0? I haven't seen this mentioned in any change logs, maybe I missed it?
Is that an increased buffer recharge rate or increased buffer capacity?

[BlakeMW]

In .13 laser turrets received an increased buffer, so they should be able to shoot at full speed.

In 0.13.0? I haven't seen this mentioned in any change logs, maybe I missed it?
Is that an increased buffer recharge rate or increased buffer capacity?

I also haven't seen it mentioned in change logs, nevertheless it now has a buffer recharge rate of 9600kW, enough for 12 shots/s which would accommodate a speed bonus as high as +300%

On the general topic of this thread, since the "tick effects" have been fixed for assembly machines perhaps we will also see them fixed for turrets/weapons in the future - but it hasn't happened yet.

[Qon]

I also haven't seen it mentioned in change logs, nevertheless it now has a buffer recharge rate of 9600kW, enough for 12 shots/s which would accommodate a speed bonus as high as +300%

On the general topic of this thread, since the "tick effects" have been fixed for assembly machines perhaps we will also see them fixed for turrets/weapons in the future - but it hasn't happened yet.

Ok, well thanks. Your post seemed to have improved the situation somewhat now. So laser turrets should be even stronger now. Do lasers have higher DPS than gun turrets against behemoths atm then? Or at least fairly close?

[Hammerchief]

This reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... _upgrades/

... says that you shouldn't upgrade your Gun Turrets and Laser Turrets to the highest tiers of RoF upgrades, because the ticks system means you won't get any benefit from it at all.

Is that actually true?

In .13 laser turrets received an increased buffer, so they should be able to shoot at full speed.

Bullet turrrets still gain nothing from bullet speed after level 4 where they fire every 3 ticks. Need ~300% to actually reach the next full tick breakpoint and fire every 2 ticks.
Machine gun same no benefit after 4. Defender capsule benefit every level of bullet speed.

This seems weird that some gun turret upgrades doesn't do anything. Any idea how was this actually measured? I didn't fing bug report of this.
On Reddit they say that calculate precise time for shooting in irregular intervals would be CPU heavy but it would be easy to calculate that ticks just once for one technology tier, save that table and just iterate through when turret is shooting. Is it sure, that there isn't any similar technology at work?

[XKnight]

This seems weird that some gun turret upgrades doesn't do anything. Any idea how was this actually measured? I didn't fing bug report of this.
On Reddit they say that calculate precise time for shooting in irregular intervals would be CPU heavy but it would be easy to calculate that ticks just once for one technology tier, save that table and just iterate through when turret is shooting. Is it sure, that there isn't any similar technology at work?

I am not sure that someone actually measured this thing, maybe reddit post is just an assumptions based on the knowledge about game-tick existence. Also, devs have already fixed some problem with not precise production time in ticks (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28128), so you can post similiar bug about turrets.

[Hammerchief]

I am not sure that someone actually measured this thing, maybe reddit post is just an assumptions based on the knowledge about game-tick existence. Also, devs have already fixed some problem with not precise production time in ticks (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28128), so you can post similiar bug about turrets.

I also thought that it can be just an assuption but I did my own measurement and its true, gun turrets are shooting at same speed at upgrade levels 1 and 2, and also 4,5 and 6. Reported it as bug here.

[Hammerchief]

So this bug was fixed for gun turrets in 13.10:

Fixed bullet shooting speed not working properly. (28707)

I tested how it works now, measuring how long it takes for turret to shoot 50 magazines:

Without bullet shooting speed upgrade: 3000 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 1: 2500 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 2: 2142 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 3: 1764 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 4: 1500 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 5: 1305 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 6: 1154 ticks

It's precisely as XKnight foretold, so the turrets are now significantly stronger than in previous game versions - up to 42% with the sixth uprage! Definitely worth upgrading now.

[hi_impact]

Without bullet shooting speed upgrade: 3000 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 1: 2500 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 2: 2142 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 3: 1764 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 4: 1500 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 5: 1305 ticks
Bullet shooting speed 6: 1154 ticks

It's precisely as XKnight foretold, so the turrets are now significantly stronger than in previous game versions - up to 42% with the sixth uprage! Definitely worth upgrading now.

Good stuff. Gun Turrets were already excellent at 3-3-3 (Dmg / Speed / TurretDmg) when they one shot smalls with Basic Ammo, but sometimes large waves of spitters would wear them down over waves and waves with potshots. This shooting speed boost might push turrets to wipe out larger groups of spitters before they can wind up a shot.

[BlakeMW]

All in all fully upgraded turrets were already very powerful, and even firing regular ammo could wipe out everything pretty much without taking damage until the late big-biter era, when the real problem becomes more ammo cost than kill speed (gun turrets firing regular ammo even wipe out Behemoth Biters pretty easily, but the ammo cost is very great).
The extra firing speed only really means you can get away with fewer turrets to fire the same number of bullets. Also it's nice that shooting speed level 2 now works properly with turrets.