Suggestion (sort of) - excluding researches

[nobodx]

I just had this idea, but it isn't really fleshed out, so I post it here instead of the suggestion-forum.
What do you think about excluding research path ?

The player would have to choose a specialization that gives him a cool update (maybe double handed inserters) but once developed, he can't get the rivaling one (maybe inserters with a build in chest).

[daniel34]

Related threads:
Late Game Research - https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=16833
Increases the number of incremental updates and gives rewards for specialization

Role playing direction - https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... hp?f=9&t=7 (posted by kovarex very early on)
The idea of having different classes (Engineer/Fighter/Scientist/...) that have different bonuses, and a skill tree with experience and leveling
Especially relevant for multiplayer because it would add diversity there (PvP)
This post from the same thread gives a lot of additional ideas for specialization/skill trees.

I don't like the idea of excluding research paths in the technology tree completely. I think it would be better to make it more difficult to research 'rivaling' paths, so if you research a lot of transport belt upgrades it costs more to research the robot upgrades, maybe exponentially. In that case researching the fastest transport belts make it still viable to get some early robot upgrades but very difficult to research the final ones.

[Nasabot]

I don't like the idea of excluding research paths in the technology tree completely. I think it would be better to make it more difficult to research 'rivaling' paths, so if you research a lot of transport belt upgrades it costs more to research the robot upgrades, maybe exponentially. In that case researching the fastest transport belts make it still viable to get some early robot upgrades but very difficult to research the final ones.

Yes, I see it similar.
Still I think "exclusive gamedesign" is a good thing, if it provides the player different choices. However, factorio might not be the optimal game for this, because exclusive design works better with games where you have to restart often.

I guess a lot of people have savegames with playtimes of 30h+ and restarting the game just to try out a different feature is not so welcome for many people^^.

It certainly is a good idea, but it does not work with factorio too well. However, factorio is not a finished game, who knows, in which direction it develops? Personally Id like it, if the player is encouraged to start a game often to reach certain goals and try out new playstyles, where you have to make dedicated choices in your research path.

[nobodx]

Like I said, the idea is rather basic, and I don't have exact plans what stuff should be on different paths.
I also don't want the game to be completely different if you choose another path. It's more like different focuses like the double headed inserter vs the one with an internal box or bigger logistic drones vs faster ones or build-drones with stronger armor vs ones with a small laser to defend themselves and so on.

[ssilk]

That sounds for me like the description of an interesting mod.

[nobodx]

Almost every change to the game sounds like a mod description
Unfortunately, my modding-skills are rather basic

[cartmen180]

That sounds for me like the description of an interesting mod.

Unfortunately to my knowledge, recipes and research are both static once you have launched the game. It would be nice to add simple IF statements (for example when you have researched something in the first tier, the other techs in the first tier increase in cost by X %).

[ssilk]

When I read that I need to point to something, that is in my eyes not possible. AFAIK it's easy to add new recipes/tech - so it seems to be easy to have an IF in your technology tree. But what's not that easy is to change recipes then.

Both (research and recipes) are "recipes of assembly" of how to do something. So my opinion is, that if you change a recipe, then it is not longer the same recipe, it's a new recipe. But the old one still works.

Some example: a bread with marmalade consists of bread, butter and marmalade. When I make breakfast I put all on the desk and assemble it then together. Now you change the recipe and exchange butter with margarine.
What then happens is, that I come too late to work, cause I sit half an hour on my chair with the knife in my hand searching for the margarine, until I recognize that I'm trapped in a deadlock.

The same happens in Factorio. But you as player need to fix it; the game cannot fix it itself.

A little bit different is it, when you change the quantities of recipes, with a factor for example. As in your suggestion.

I take the same experiment with the bread and you reduce the amount of butter. That works perfect. But not longer when I need to stay in a hotel. They have packed butter and now I'm trapped again: before I put the empty butter-paper into the trash (on the table), but now? What to do with the rest of the butter? I used only half of the butter and until I cannot make two breads at the same time or have an extra place for the rest of butter I cannot continue.

Well, that is quite theoretical at the moment, really (and its unsure, if this will ever come), but once Factorio enables to have packed items, exactly this can happen, if you as a player bundle sizes of recipes to package sizes.

It doesn't mean, that it is the same as the first case - which is in my eyes really a new recipe of you change the ingredients. But changing quantities can be sometimes equal to this case, when the number of ingredients (or even the outgoing items) depends on special ratios.

[nobodx]

In my idea, the standard marmalade bread recipe won't be available any more.
You now end with either a cheese or sausage (or ist it meat?) bread, and all the following recipes (breakfast made of a bread+coffee , meals made of breakfast+lunch+dinner) change as well, since the original bread + butter + marmalade is no longer available.

And now I'm hungry -.-

[ssilk]

Ok, what do I do now with the belts, that transport bread, butter and marmalade from the kitchen to the desk?

Btw: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=17538

[nobodx]

Can you enable/disable researches & recipes while the game runs ? Or can you just do it, before the map is loaded ?