Stepping it up a notch?

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Lerxst
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Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Lerxst »

So, I'm relatively new to the game - have maybe about 25-30 hours invested in total. I've gotten my production down pretty well, laid out one train track and have a few oil pumps set up.

Now what?

That seems to be my main stumbling block with this game, the "now what" factor. There's nothing that really seems to pose a threat. A few turrets in any one direction and I'm good to go. The most I have to do is repair a wall or two. I've also gone hunting with a rocket launcher and a remote (site-built) turret I carry around for large nests.

Does this game actually get more challenging as you progress through it? I mean, depending on the start, it could be a bit of a challenge, but it seems that once you pass the curve, you're home free for eternity.

I really like the game but see several games have this same situation - hard/impossible at start, then piece of cake later on. It might just be a lucky map or something, but I don't see much really getting in my way at this point anymore on this game I saved. Progressing any more just seems monotonous if there's not really any benefit to it.

I'm thinking enemies that get increasingly difficult with time, enemy hoards that get larger and larger with each wave. Something that will basically keep me/you/us always having to build, advance and grow in order to keep up or die.

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Xterminator
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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Xterminator »

Hey. So I can understand what your going through, I experience the same thing myself.
So first of all, if you have only gotten to oil, you have a lot more to do in the game, like setting up blue science, or getting !modules going etc... As for the enemies, they do advance over time, but with just normal biter settings on, that doesn't really matter much as they never pose too much of a threat. Turning up the settings for enemies can definitely provide a bigger challenge for you, even past early game. Unfortunately I don't believe there is a way to increase their settings in a current game. Would have to start a new.

Another option is mods. There are a massive number of mods out there, and some of them, like Dytech for example change a lot about the game, and make the biters much much more difficult.

Really it depends on your play style. A lot of people actually prefer to just not deal with enemies at all, so they use a mod to just turn them off. Simply because they find the most enjoyment from building their factory. Then some people like you, and myself seem to like the challenge of the biters. So maybe try turning up the difficultly settings for them and start a new game. Could even throw in some mods too if you wanted. :)
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starholme
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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by starholme »

If you are open to mods, I strongly suggest adding Dynamic Expansion: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =14&t=7935

As your evolution level increases, the biters become significantly more aggressive. The biggest change as far as I'm concerned is to the way that they try to create new bases at high evolution factor, instead of building at least 3 chunks from your base, they will try to build right at it. You can get some pretty significant attacks this way.

Even with this mod though, a single line of walls with a solid single line of laser turrets behind it can stop anything.

Another self imposed challenge I found fun was only clearing biter bases within firing range of my defenses. This means most sections of my base are under near continuous attack, requiring far more power to keep the lasers going.

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MeduSalem
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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by MeduSalem »

Without mods... it will probably get boring for people looking for a reasonable challenge - by fighting enemies, that is.

Tuning up the frequency and size of biter bases won't make much of a difference for people who know what they are doing. It may impose a super hard time in the beginning but once you have a decent defense set (if you survive at all) you are pretty much king of the hill again because the biters pretty much can't progress beyond a certain point all while your defense becomes stronger and stronger with more turrets and their respective research.

Factorio is at all no Tower Defense game like "Harvest: Massive Encounter", "Defense Grid" or others.

But I admit I wish it would have more Tower Defense elements to it by default, or at least some similar gamemodes... because Harvest: Massive Encounter works quite similar to Factorio by gaining resources to build a stronger base and defense line and depending on the gamemode you will play with neverending evergrowing hordes of enemies up to the point where you will eventually get overwhelmed because they are just too many and too strong ones to fend off.

If I'd have to recommend a rework of the combat/fight mechanics of biters and turrets then the devs should get a copy of Harvest:ME and plain rip some of the features off (yeah I can't believe I actually wrote that but the fight mechanics of Factorio are currently "meh", sorry but it's the truth), because the Harvest:ME shows how a Tower Defense game is done for real with some pretty interesting concepts like linking multiple Laser Turrets together to form one that has a longer reach and more power and a priority concept where each turret type may be firing only on specific enemy types in a specific priority because they are better at dealing with them.

Which reminds me I could be playing that game once again because I haven't in a long time and I for sure developed new strategies ever since.

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Lerxst »

Thanks. I'll try some mods then since I don't mind rebuilding a base.

It doesn't really need to be a constant attack, just the threat that something can utterly destroy me would be fine :D Like 7 Days to Die, for instance, if you're not up and running by the time the hoard comes around, you'll be curb-stomped by zombies. Or Rimwolrd which advances the enemies slightly each wave of attack. It would be nice if there was a constant threat of annihilation around every turn!

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by ssilk »

Lerxst wrote:Does this game actually get more challenging as you progress through it? I mean, depending on the start, it could be a bit of a challenge, but it seems that once you pass the curve, you're home free for eternity.
Factorio becomes really a thread, if you expand to fast (pollution rises up to extreme levels). Hundreds of biter are coming, you built laser batteries but they eat your energy like cheese cake and you get really fast overwhelmed in the night, if you don't have the right balance of all your systems.

But that is of course only advanced strategies, because a beginner cannot grow that fast. :) So this is a good question.
Yeah, this is what's missing: Tasks, things, that you know what to do and for what purpose. But this is just because it is alpha. It will come at some time...
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Peter34
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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Peter34 »

Lerxst wrote:That seems to be my main stumbling block with this game, the "now what" factor. There's nothing that really seems to pose a threat. A few turrets in any one direction and I'm good to go. The most I have to do is repair a wall or two. I've also gone hunting with a rocket launcher and a remote (site-built) turret I carry around for large nests.
What kind of aliens are attacking you so far? Small Biters? Or Small Spitters too? As the game progresses and you continue to "enhance" the atmosphere of the planet, you'll get stronger and more dangerous aliens. In the current version the progression goes Small Biters only at first, then Small Spitters, then Medium Biters, then Medium Spitters, then Large Biters, then Large Spitters, but with many hours in between each "upgrade". So just wait and see.

Oh, and also note that you will need to go out and harvest some Alien Artifacts, later on, both to make Science Pack 4 (the purple ones) and to build certain items, such as modules for your Modular Armor or Power Armor (which comes in handy, even if you're relatively pacifist, in that it lets you use an Exoskeleton so you can move around faster).

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Cougarific »

Peter34 wrote:
Lerxst wrote:Oh, and also note that you will need to go out and harvest some Alien Artifacts, later on, both to make Science Pack 4 (the purple ones) and to build certain items
Yah I would think that ^this is your "What's Next", it was for me. Having to make periodic road trips to replenish your supply of Alien Artifacts breaks up the pace a bit by forcing you to go out and wage war on aliens to collect artifacts.

If you're any good at it, you're pushing them back faster than they can expand so you have to travel further and further from the safety of your base every time you run out of artifacts. These trips start to feel like real expeditions, you're stocking the tank or car with basic supplies you might need out in the field, hacking paths through the forests, etc.

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by psihius »

My experience is to have difficulties, you need to tune settings. And not only biter settings, but resources too.
I have a game we played in multiplayer, I have set the oil to low settings. It became a challange to get enought oil fast and problems and the need to expand and clear biters lasted well into 80 hours of the game (we didn't go for the rocket defence win, but for expansion). I've also put resources to rare, but sizeable. That also forced us to expand a lot. And die a lot, I mean we had to reload like crazy. because making a new MK1 or MK2 armor suite was just out of the question for quite some time.

The results can be seen here: http://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/commen ... _you_will/ (at this time it's bigger and ticked at 99 hours 40 minutes, I'm waiting for 0.12 to continue, because optimizations are really needed to play this monster).

Long story short - set yourself a challange and you will get rewarded.
But, beat the game at least once. 25-30 hours of game is only half-way till the rocket defence (60 hours for the first game seems to be an average in the community).

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by glutamate »

This is my main problem with the game at the moment.

I made a suggestion linked in my sig for an objective generator, so you could play for points/high score by completing increasingly demanding objectives.

Having to set up a car factory and get your car production above 20 per minute for 10 minutes, for instance. It would keep you working towards something interesting, beyond just being 100% sandbox.

I was also considering making a big suggestion post for some ideas for hostile terrain which you're trying to overcome - like a randomly flooding lava canyon which only you and trains can cross, and your objective is to deliver goods to the other side. Would require some skill at setting up logic gates to signal the trains through when the temperature is about to rise.

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Re: Stepping it up a notch?

Post by Starwalker »

I had the exact same experience as you, hence my suggestion/idea for a more involving game i did a while back: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=5&t=8592

tl;dr: you are the one bringing the biters to the planet when you crash land, the native population on the planet face extinction. You are responsible for saving them by developing tech and supplying them with weapons and technology.

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