How do YOU use mining drills?

[mmmPI]

In fact I would say a full belt will usually give you less ore per second

If you only look at that one belt then sure. But on a larger scale that 14th miner won't be just left out. It will be placed somewhere else. So you get one belt with 14.3 ore per second and on some other belt you get an extra 1.1 ore per second for a total of 15.4 ore per second.

If you have another belt somewhere with an extra 1.1 ore per second to me that means you have 2 belts. If you are saying that a full belt give you less ore per second than 2 belts could give you. Yes i agree, it wasn't all that clear from your initial sentence to me.

Let me be explicit: The argument is not that 13 miners are better than 14. But that 13 miners and putting the 14th miner somewhere else is better.

The word "better" here i think was used to mean produce more, I agree 14 miners can produce more than 13 miners.
If you have to build a whole new outpost kms away just to add that 14th miners, then i'm not so sure it's "better", it's another consideration.

"Full Belts" indeed do not matter, they are just a metric by which a Player can communicate to another Player how much Ore they are getting. In all practical applications you should always aim to have some space left on your Mining Belts, so that later Mining Productivity Science wont fill it up instantly.

That would be to guarantee the most efficient use of mining drill, but i'm not sure it's all too practical x) I'm aiming at full belts for my train station so that it's easy to monitor the ratio of producer consumer. If i make a train station that can load 2 blue belts. I'm not going to make it 2.2 and then 2.42 and continuing when the research occur. I consider i have an outpost that gives me 2 belts , i have furnaces dimensionned to handle that, and the research is increasing the lifetime of the ore patch by making some mining drill idle a bit more.

I agree that belts radiating from the center would make sure the mining drill covering the densest ore patches are functionning with priority over the mining drills located on the edges. It would in theory be a way to keep your outpost able to answer to higher "peak" demand for a longer period of time in the game the way i see it. But i don't find it practical to use for the gain it provide.

It would be different with a few tiles of infinite ore in the center, i would probably reconsider the gain it provide. In such case it would make more sense for me to tap enough outpost so i can fully rely on infinite tiles. And keep the non-infinite as adjustment variable to meet unexpected "peak" demand.

[FasterJump]

No one uses productivity modules?

Even if you have +140% productivity via research, the +30% are still 12.5% more ore, that's not so negligeable.

Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

Same question for other modules combination: T2 with efficiency, etc.

[GregoriusT]

No one uses productivity modules?

Even if you have +140% productivity via research, the +30% are still 12.5% more ore, that's not so negligeable.

Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

Same question for other modules combination: T2 with efficiency, etc.

So lets weigh the options that you have in regards of Modules in Miners:

Three Speed 1 Modules making the Miner output 1.6 times as much Ore per second, resulting in fewer Outposts for a cheap price, at the cost of increasing your pollution cloud and power demand, which means slightly more biter busting.

Three Productivity 1 Modules making the Miner output +2% more than one level of Mining Prod Science, all at the cost of pollution and power yet again, and more biter busting, while ALSO slowing down the Miner overall. Practically worthless to do honestly unless you are REALLY short on Ores.

Three Efficiency 1 Modules making the Miner consume 80% less power, which means 80% less pollution (Miners pollute purely based on power consumption), resulting in a MUCH smaller pollution cloud and therefore less biter busting. We can skip Efficiency 2 and Efficiency 3 since three Efficiency 1 is doing the same for cheaper.

Three Speed 3 Modules making the Miner output 2.5 times as much Ore per second, cutting your Outposts in less than half for a high price, but just as the other speed modules, more biter busting around that Outpost. Tier 3 Modules are also expensive as heck and slow to produce, but they are still worth it.

Three Productivity 3 Modules making the miner output 3 Mining Productivity Science Levels worth of Ore, but again with more Pollution, Power and most importantly slowing the Miners to a crawl. This one unlike Productivity 1, might actually be worth it if you are in danger of running out of Ore before you get your millions of green circuits Achievement done on a Deathworld.

Using Speed 3 Beacons with Productivity 3 Modules in your Mining Outposts can be quite the boon, but the pollution cloud and power consumption are gonna be massive.
Add to that, that you will be forced to relocate the Miners once you are five sevenths through the Ore Patch, and then you only have stripes worth of Ore left, which if you abandon those, basically means you have been quite wasteful and should probably have used more Speed 3 Modules in the Miners anyway, if you really wanted to leave behind the stripes.

All of this is probably the reason people with experience do not use Productivity Modules in Miners. And yes I know the Stripes argument will be invalid once you get Big Drill in 2.0, and the Meta will turn towards Speed Beacon Mining once you leave the Efficiency Phase.

[mmmPI]

No one uses productivity modules?
Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

It has happened to me to use productivity modules, but i wasn't using speed beacons, and i'm not saying what i do is optimal, just that's it's what i do and the reasons why.

If the ore patch is not very rich, to me it make sense to try and use productivity module rather than speed or even nothing. Because sure the throughput will be lower because of the productivity module, in ore per second, but if you consider the previous graphs, then you can consider the area under the curve, or the total ore mined by the mining drill will be higher in the end.

It would be one if not the"worst use of productivity modules" as wherever you place them they would pay back for themselves faster, and not using beacons makes it even slower for them to repay for themselves. But that's not my consideration, rather it is if i have a 10 million outpost that can last 2 hours because i have quite the mining on it, if i add productivity modules it may become more of a 12 million ore patch, that last 4 hours to exagerate. instead of 5M-iron-ore per hour for 2 hours, that would 3M-iron-ore per hour for 4 hours.

That could be to generate iron for sulfuric acid in a remote factory where i also happened to do uranium. Where 5M iron could last you super long for that particular use case, you don't need throughput, you just want it to last "forever" so as to spare the trouble to build additionnal stations to get the iron coming. Whereas connecting it to be harvested for the main factory would cause it to be depleted faster and then cause player to need to ship iron the other way later so the rare occasion where i spot an opportunity, i do. It happens more frenquently in modded game with more ore, where some of them are "rare", where you don't need a lot of throughput, like 3-4 mining drill constantly mining, but it's annoying to find another source when the first one is depleted.

For your other question,i may be making mistakes, but here's my 2cts : i think it highly depend on the number of mining drill you have. We can take the extreme case :"if you have only 1", then it's always going to be cheaper to do the module no matter the cost or level of the research, it's just super slow

Now if you want to compare the price of X miner versus the price of X level of research, you can use a factorio calculator It can show the raw input per minute required to make the desired refined output per minute. So you could compare the cost of raw ressources for 150 modules vs 500 science packs. Or whatever next 3-4 level of research cost. It would show how much module you could build for the same amount of raw ressources if they were invested in science. There may be a bit of comparing 130 iron and 50 copper versus 50 coal and 30 stone required.

[MeduSalem]

No one uses productivity modules?

Even if you have +140% productivity via research, the +30% are still 12.5% more ore, that's not so negligeable.

Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

Same question for other modules combination: T2 with efficiency, etc.

The answer depends on your SPM and the therefore required amount of miners & modules.

I did some tests (using the calculator as mmmPI suggested above) and if my calculations aren't totally off I think the breakeven point to add 30% via PM3 modules vs 30% via 3 levels of mining productivity is around 50-60 SPM or something the likes. Assuming you have PM3s on all intermediates; and assuming researching the first 3 levels of mining productivity.

If you are lower than that the modules make more sense because you don't have as many miners;
But if you are above that SPM, then screw the modules because the resource cost for the modules gets ridiculous fast. ^^


However, eventually the research gets so expensive that it will ultimately overtake the modules cost. You can only delay it by increasing SPM. Your computer/UPS is the final limit so if you can't (or don't want to) increase SPM anymore then eventually inevitably the modules will be cheaper.
I can't say a general formula for it, but what it is obvious from the tests is that it will happen sooner for a low SPM base than for a high SPM base.

[mrvn]

No one uses productivity modules?

Even if you have +140% productivity via research, the +30% are still 12.5% more ore, that's not so negligeable.

Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

Same question for other modules combination: T2 with efficiency, etc.

Indeed, the need to rebuild the miners to get the ore left under the beacon is a hassle. You also need a ton of miners and don't have enough modules. The few you have are better placed in other assemblers for more benefit.

Efficiency modules in miners though is a real thing because they produce a ton of pollution and the modules really help there.


With mods for big miners (or the factorio 2 update) things change though. You can place the miners with a bigger mining area around a beacon and still cover all the ore. With speed beacons you need a lot fewer miners and suddenly productivity modules become more appealing. I do this in Space Exploration with speed3/prod3 modules and 4 miners fill a yellow belt, 8 fill a red belt and 4-8 miners cover the usual ore patch size. Still takes a really long time to pay for the cost of the modules and beacon.

[mrvn]

Using Speed 3 Beacons with Productivity 3 Modules in your Mining Outposts can be quite the boon, but the pollution cloud and power consumption are gonna be massive.
Add to that, that you will be forced to relocate the Miners once you are five sevenths through the Ore Patch, and then you only have stripes worth of Ore left, which if you abandon those, basically means you have been quite wasteful and should probably have used more Speed 3 Modules in the Miners anyway, if you really wanted to leave behind the stripes.

All of this is probably the reason people with experience do not use Productivity Modules in Miners. And yes I know the Stripes argument will be invalid once you get Big Drill in 2.0, and the Meta will turn towards Speed Beacon Mining once you leave the Efficiency Phase.

Your forgot Speed Beacons with Efficiency modules. Iirc the extra speed raises the efficiency cap and thus allows higher level efficiency modules to work.

[mrvn]

No one uses productivity modules?

Even if you have +140% productivity via research, the +30% are still 12.5% more ore, that's not so negligeable.

Of course it means you have to build your mining outpost twice, to allow space for speed beacon, so you don't waste power, but I think ~ +10% is good. Although I would be curious to know if the ressources used to make the modules are equal to the ressources needed to add +30% via research.

Same question for other modules combination: T2 with efficiency, etc.

The answer depends on your SPM and the therefore required amount of miners & modules.

I did some tests (using the calculator as mmmPI suggested above) and if my calculations aren't totally off I think the breakeven point to add 30% via PM3 modules vs 30% via 3 levels of mining productivity is around 50-60 SPM or something the likes. Assuming you have PM3s on all intermediates; and assuming researching the first 3 levels of mining productivity.

If you are lower than that the modules make more sense because you don't have as many miners;
But if you are above that SPM, then screw the modules because the resource cost for the modules gets ridiculous fast. ^^


However, eventually the research gets so expensive that it will ultimately overtake the modules cost. You can only delay it by increasing SPM. Your computer/UPS is the final limit so if you can't (or don't want to) increase SPM anymore then eventually inevitably the modules will be cheaper.
I can't say a general formula for it, but what it is obvious from the tests is that it will happen sooner for a low SPM base than for a high SPM base.

You have to calculate the break even point for each PM3 module and level. But if you are going to do infinite research then you will always hit a point where the research is faster than adding modules for any given SPM.

[FasterJump]

My post draw some attention I'll try answering my own challenge.

Assumptions are:

• Energy is free
• oil/water/sulphur is free
• All machines (assemblers, etc.) have Prod 3 modules (when their recipe allows it)
• All machines (assemblers, etc.) are affected by 4 beacons with speed modules (this means that in a average, there will the same amount of miners and beacons: 3 prod + 2 speed per miner)
• We want to maximize the amount of ore obtained per ore depleted (in the ore patch), we don't worry about the extraction speed

I used https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJ ... 5RQw__&v=9 and https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJ ... UWEA__&v=9

Building a 3 T3 productivity modules and 2 T3 speed modules costs approximately 5,523 ore, counting only iron and copper (15,415 without production modules in the production chain).

The bonus ore extracted when depleting 1 ore from the ore patch is (these formulas won't be used in the computation, so I greyed this text):

• without prod 3 modules: bonus_ore = 0.1 * Mining_productivity_research_level
• with prod 3 modules: bonus_ore = 0.3 + 0.1 * Mining_productivity_research_level

Producing 1 science pack of each (except military) costs 110 ore (excluding coal and stone) (without any prod modules in the production chain, it would cost 344 ore)
Producing 2,500 science pack of each costs 275,000 ores. We only need to consume 2083 science packs of each color due to prod modules in the labs, that costs 229,200 ores (860,000 ore without prod 3 modules).
Technically, 1 mining drill could produce enough resources for an entire research level, given enough time. So we need to assume how many mining drill are being used by the player at a certain time. Let's assume 100 mining drills.

100 mining drills <=> 100 sets of T3 modules = 552,300 ore --> it means that it costs 552,300 ore (1,541,500 ore without prod modules in the production chain) to get 0.3 bonus ore per ore consumed in the patch if we add modules.

If the player chooses to focus on productivity research rather than using productivity modules in mining drills, the player needs to spend 229,200 * (Level - 3) ore, and again a second time, and again a third time (because 3 levels are needed to get the 30%). This means that upgrading from level 3 to level 6 costs 1,375,200 ore (5,160,000 ore without prod 3 modules), which breaks even for the average game (not much prod modules in the production chain)

Now, rather than the arbitrary 100 mining drill, let's say that the player has n drills working at all times. The breaking point is when n * 5523 = 229,200 * (Level - 3) + 229,200 * (Level + 1 - 3) + 229,200 * (Level + 2 - 3).
The breaking point is when n * 5,523 = 229,200 *(3 * Level - 6) -> with prod 3 in the production chain
The breaking point is when n * 15,415 = 860,000 *(3 * Level - 6) -> without prod 3 in the production chain

If we plot level as a function of n, we get Level = (1/3) * (6 + n * 5,523 / 229,200) ... or without prod modules in the production chain Level = (1/3) * (6 + n * 15,415 / 860,000) (this only works if the player already has mining productivity research >= 3, see the formula in the wiki).

We have this table: (n=level, LwP=level_with_production3_modules, LwoP=level_without_production3_modules)

n       LwP     LwoP
100   2.80     2.60
200   3.61     3.19
300   4.41     3.79
400   5.21     4.39

To read this table, if you have, say 300 drills and your next mining research is 4, it is more efficient to add T3 modules to your mines because you are already above the threshold (3.79). But if you have 400 drills and your next research level is 4, it is more efficient to increase your mining productivity research until the next level is above 4.39.

In conclusion, in most games, you can get more out of your ore fields if you also use productivity modules rather than only mining productivity research (unless there are errors in my calculations). As MeduSalem said, adding 30% via research becomes crazy expensive fast, while module price is constant). In a real game, making a beaconed outpost require more planning (diverting some resources from science pack production to module production).

[mmmPI]

My post draw some attention I'll try answering my own challenge.

If we plot level as a function of n ....

Yeah, the second one too , inspiring idea to plot things ^^ , using your values of range from 110 to 344 ore for a single science pack, with the possibility to have 0 1 or 2 modules in the labs, i find the same as you do when going from level 3 to 6 regarding the cost of ressources. 1.375M up to 5.160M
I also used the cost of 5523 for a "mining set" But one can change it.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/5uqtjzb3lv

That is the red curve at value of o=6 because 6th level of research, or x=3 because that's 3 level past the level 3...

But then i made a little simpler math representation, it only shows the cumulative cost for research divided by the amount of module set. Or how many "miningset" you can build for the cost of a certain level of the research from level 3.
If you go from :
3 to 5 in research that will cost the same as 124 mining set if prod 3 module in lab and production chain or 467 if not
3 to 7 in research that will cost the same as 414 mining set if prod 3 module in lab and production chain or 1550 if not
3 to 25 in research that will cost the same as 10 497 mining set if prod 3 modules in lab and production chain or 39 395 if not

That is the green curve and the value when changing from 110 as cost for a single science pack and 2 module in lab ,to 344 as cost for a single science pack and 0 module in labs. If you go from 5 to 7 or 25, one has to do the subtraction themselves ! It was easier this way on Desmos

[Mango]

Like this



Works fine with yellow belts and small electric poles

0eNqlWtlu4jAU/Rc/O5X3hX+YLxhVIygWEykkKIRRq4p/HydFXRQbrq+fqtBwnHvOXY4d3smuu4TT2PYT2byTc789NdPQHMZ2P1+/ko1glLyRDXdXStqXoT+Tze94Y3vot918y/R2CmRD2ikcCSX99jhfhS68TGP70hzbvu0PzX5su47MCP0+RFB+faYk9FM7teEDcLl4+9Nfjrswxhu+oF5PYzifm0v85ngYh/i32YVuioudhnMEGPrbk8onvTxqw550XOr2YMNlOl2muPZqDYFYg5cuIh9wko1CLPj7dozfWv6rEuiqFJ0XwetS+Ibf4HWETwAaBOWfmBLGuC3m5Nsz/6BEJNBdKbrOoZsEuq9Ie/WdnrbPsMMZYglXpgDnpSS5+2nDRbGmRaLy4irlRbJyVdNqgMJqzBqlyppioh5J+1Wux7BvL8fmE/g0dCGf7mZ54j60h7+74TLOU0QIKixV5jm1jqsoLQ1kxxfGwu8FY6kUVLlUMILV5BMwGsFrmrUDJa0QhYx94ts1YzGVNE/SVVze7EcUD6pbKOyMd5AhLIqnsMnBp3qfMBUDAahyaY27uyLHMtPJGhfFw5mXCe3RdguktGTF+EVSS14zImBay9KK5vfE9tQkK1oWV7QoUloqtPOdnUdq0Eld0049cLdhsOZ3eezHGWSx9neNn+S9ZkpzBstQX9HwgDoohnXAufRRHG2BYdIqgfbAMG2VrDEtQHGVqmlxUHU12gVn5TVIG8xFxgjFGUmtTjVPZWuKjAM5clgvnIxoHvlxFlBrkxH5qtQChqRZTQfnsG2c5lhHzGVyRxQzy7EUaVpgXfEtlAf1rtFHX2v85OGUwvriNX6qIWpdMSegahukM06KPe99446RumTZa4t2x0DBHdoeAxX3aH8Mk9ywmukB1NxwrENOib6cEVCfrHAj0C4ZpriReJtsMyfEqqrJAs82jEb7ZAtKJIP2yRZEfNUIN7A8dTX9DyqERxvlTAJZhjfKIG0txxtlkLi26sUUUF0rq1odUF6r8E45p6/GOmW37p6LOcrMS2tqaswCCbJom5wKZ579mWFgXVVWQePxNe1bwDZ5jqE9sl+TFh13ep/kONYg3+J4UOdOoN8NM4hdchJrkNf4yVehqmJAQKXWWIOcUnreEWe2kM6g3TFQbYt/Vw+T26HdMVBvXzMygIJ7hnbHCcWzJwaeo60xTG4vKqaHEDCuqk7Ukos8049f8my+/S6Ikm4bseJnvxaG4gf/wnj+yBPHlfXCOuWl8eZ6/Q/rj/JU

Copy blueprint
Edit: Removed modules and made the BP snap to grid.

[Tertius]

I don't understand the purpose of 3 efficiency modules per miner. As far as I understand, one module is reducing power usage by 50%, capped at 80%, so 3 modules create 150% energy reduction but capped at 80%, so it's 80%. One module is completely cut away, and another by 20%. A more resource saving measure would probably be to use 2 efficiency 2 modules, which are vastly cheaper to produce and reduce energy by 40% each, together 80%, which is exactly the limit.

[GregoriusT]

I don't understand the purpose of 3 efficiency modules per miner. As far as I understand, one module is reducing power usage by 50%, capped at 80%, so 3 modules create 150% energy reduction but capped at 80%, so it's 80%. One module is completely cut away, and another by 20%. A more resource saving measure would probably be to use 2 efficiency 2 modules, which are vastly cheaper to produce and reduce energy by 40% each, together 80%, which is exactly the limit.

Efficiency Modules Tier 1 only do 30 percent not 50. Nobody is stupid enough to use Efficiency Modules past the first Tier and wube really needs to buff Tier 2 and Tier 3...

But yeah Tier 1 Efficiency Modules are ridiculously cheap, that's why people use three of those as opposed to two of the Tier 2s.

[Mango]

I don't understand the purpose of 3 efficiency modules per miner...

Efficiency Modules Tier 1 only do 30 percent not 50. Nobody is stupid enough to use Efficiency Modules past the first Tier...

Well, I'm actually stupid enough to not notice. Seems like ideally you'll use 2 Efficiency and 1 Speed Module

[GregoriusT]

Well, I'm actually stupid enough to not notice. Seems like ideally you'll use 2 Efficiency and 1 Speed Module

Not quite because the speed module undoes efficiency, and at the point at which it is worth to use Speed 3 with two Efficiency 3, you are far enough in the tech tree to no longer worry about efficiency, and could instead just use three Speed 3.

So unless Beacons are involved, you do not want anything but Efficiency 1.

Also I remembered this Reddit Writeup: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... iciency_1/

[Mango]

Well, I'm actually stupid enough to not notice. Seems like ideally you'll use 2 Efficiency and 1 Speed Module

Not quite because the speed module undoes efficiency, and at the point at which it is worth to use Speed 3 with two Efficiency 3, you are far enough in the tech tree to no longer worry about efficiency, and could instead just use three Speed 3.

So unless Beacons are involved, you do not want anything but Efficiency 1.

Also I remembered this Reddit Writeup: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... iciency_1/

Interesting reading.
Anyway I modified the blueprint by removing the modules altogether and made it snap to grid.

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

Copy blueprint

[Tertius]

If you should use efficiency modules or not really depends on your game phase, intention, scenario, and the scale of your base.

When I look at my just finished 2.5 KSPM base on a real map, energy usage of miners is negligible compared to the major consumers. There are no modules at all in the miners. Everything else is built with 8-speed-beacon rows and productivity modules except the actual mall assembling machines, which have no modules.

Screenshot 2024-03-14 213526.png (357.02 KiB) Viewed 571 times

Pollution is unevenly distributed and reaches up to the biters at some parts, but who cares?

Screenshot 2024-03-14 214419.png (893.24 KiB) Viewed 571 times

[GregoriusT]

If you should use efficiency modules or not really depends on your game phase, intention, scenario, and the scale of your base.

When I look at my just finished 2.5 KSPM base on a real map, energy usage of miners is negligible compared to the major consumers. There are no modules at all in the miners. Everything else is built with 8-speed-beacon rows and productivity modules except the actual mall assembling machines, which have no modules.

Pollution is unevenly distributed and reaches up to the biters at some parts, but who cares?

Considering Efficiency 1 Modules are cheap as heck, if you dont put anything else in the Miners, you should probably put those in there just so you dont need to build defences or clear biters everywhere.

Also i noticed one thing your Pollution Cloud is not taking into account, the Miners all the way to the left of your Base are very inactive, so they wont produce much Pollution at all, while the ones close to your Base are practically smokestacks.

And Pollution itself Lags, so it might be a good thing to keep it low, especially when its killing Forests left and right.

That is why i basically put Efficiency Modules Tier 1 into every Machine that does not have anything better to do, so my Base stays UPS friendly.

Other than that, cool base. ^^

[mrvn]

My post draw some attention I'll try answering my own challenge.

Assumptions are:

• Energy is free
• oil/water/sulphur is free
• All machines (assemblers, etc.) have Prod 3 modules (when their recipe allows it)
• All machines (assemblers, etc.) are affected by 4 beacons with speed modules (this means that in a average, there will the same amount of miners and beacons: 3 prod + 2 speed per miner)
• We want to maximize the amount of ore obtained per ore depleted (in the ore patch), we don't worry about the extraction speed

I used https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJ ... 5RQw__&v=9 and https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJ ... UWEA__&v=9

Building a 3 T3 productivity modules and 2 T3 speed modules costs approximately 5,523 ore, counting only iron and copper (15,415 without production modules in the production chain).

The bonus ore extracted when depleting 1 ore from the ore patch is (these formulas won't be used in the computation, so I greyed this text):

• without prod 3 modules: bonus_ore = 0.1 * Mining_productivity_research_level
• with prod 3 modules: bonus_ore = 0.3 + 0.1 * Mining_productivity_research_level

Let's focus on this for a minute. Wether you do mining productivity reasearch or not doesn't change the extra ore you get from the productivity modules. Similar wether you use productivity modules or not doesn't change the extra ore you get from productivity research. In both cases each module and each research will give you an extra 10% ore.

Now the cost for the research and when (or what levels) of research is cheaper than prod modules in miners has been calculated a few times and you seem to repeat that. Didn't read all of it since the result is clear. For every level of research there is a number of miners where it breaks even. Less miners makes modules more efficient, more miners makes research more efficient. But I didn't want to talk about that.

Let look at just the modules for a moment. If 3 T3 productivty modules and 2 T3 speed modules cost approximately 5,523 ore, counting only iron and copper, then any miner that will mine >18.4k ore in the future benefits from having modules. In my current game (Space eploration) ore patches near my starting point have an expected yield of 50k ore. Ore patches at the edge of the planet (some way from the base) have an expected yield of >300k ore. And it only takes 4 1/4 hours to mine 18.4k ore with 4 speed beacons per miner. After that time the modules will have paid for themself.

Note: You also need a lot of solar cells to produce all that extra power for the modules. And the space to place solar cells. Has anyone calculated the amount of ore needed for the solar cells? Could be even more than the modules.

Note2: Modules for uranium ore miners would produce extra uranium, which can be turned into power in a nuclear reactor. Do the miners produce enough uranium ore to power them and then some? Or is that a loss of uranium when not using solar cells?

[Illiander42]

Let's focus on this for a minute. Wether you do mining productivity reasearch or not doesn't change the extra ore you get from the productivity modules. Similar wether you use productivity modules or not doesn't change the extra ore you get from productivity research. In both cases each module and each research will give you an extra 10% ore.

Except that when you've got mining prod research giving you +300% productivity, each Prod module only gives you 2.5% more ore than you'd get without it, not 10%.

Because the percentages are additive, not multiplicative..