Replacing the coal liquification I used with oil I get the same numbers with helmod.Nidan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:56 amLet's try to move the discussion away from Kindergarden back to something fact based...

According to https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... tASIURsgoA a single productivity module 3 requires 1200 coal + copper + iron, when using prod 3 along all processing steps (which, given everyone seems to be in agreement that miners should be the last thing to get modules, seems a sensible requirement).

That all makes sense and aligns with my numbers. My setup used more speed modules and speed modules 3:Nidan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:56 amTo repay itself, a single prod 3 module thus needs to produce 1200 extra ore, which with 10% productivity, will happen after 1200 / 10% = 12000 mining cycles. (Or 12000 / 0,5/s = 6h 40min at speed 1.) (When using multiple prod modules, the modules will still repay themselves after 12000 mining cycles since cost increase and productivity increase will cancel out.)

Since prod modules have a speed penalty, to make meaningful comparisons to the mining productivity research, we need to bring the speed back up to 1.

Possible arrangements are e.g.

- 2 prod 3 + 1 speed 2 without beacons: 2614,57 / 20% / 0,5/s ~ 7h 16min https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... FWgk0BAA==

- 3 prod 3 in the miner + 3 speed 2 in 2 beacons, assuming you can hit 8 miners with each pair of beacons: 29683,745 / 8 / 30% / 0,5/s ~ 6h 52min https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... mo65GEAA==

That gives each miner a mining speed of 1.275 ore/s + 30% bonus = 1.6575 ore/s over your number of 0.5 ore/s + 30% = 0.65 ore/s. Or just looking at the ore from productivity 1.275 * 30% = 0.3825 ore/s vs. 0.5 * 30% = 0.15 ore/s. My calculation used more ore but also more resources for the speed modules 3. Overall that is a win in speed.

So far that matches what I got with the explained differences.

To break even you need to get the 1564h (93840 minutes) down to 6h 52min (412 minutes): 93840 / 412 = 227.8. Close enough. Where my numbers differ is the cost for the research. I have 345556 ore for level 4, which will be the coal liquification I used. Again close enough. My numbers come out to 479.75 miners to match your 455.2 miners.Nidan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:56 amMining productivity 4 research takes 281498,667 ore to research https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... OZxDztCw==. In a single miner, it'd take 281498,667 / 10% / 0,5s ~ 1564h ~ 65d to repay itself. When comparing to the 8 miner + 2 beacons setup above, the brake even point is at ~227,6 miners. Taking mining productivity 4 through 6 instead, the brake even point doubles to ~455,2 miners.

Obviously the less efficient the productivity module setup, the longer it takes to break even, the fewer miners you need to match that with mining research. To match the 1 hour break even I calculated you need 3128 miners to my 3838. A difference explained by the difference in ore used.

So thank you for confirming my numbers. So it's two people doing the math getting basically the same result now.