What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

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Drakken
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What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by Drakken »

I used to know where to find this information as some awesome person calculated it out. But alas it has been over a year since I have played and my searches have come up empty. In the past, when I am playing a very hard game, I have always improved the richness of resource deposits to make sure I have enough resources at least somewhat close by.

I am looking to do a very very hard Deathworld Marathon run with minimal trees, desert, no water, etc. etc. Also, no solar, lasers, or bots. So basically a long lasting pleasurable type of self torture.

However, what I need to know is the total cost in resources needed to research and launch a rocket to finish the game. I know my base and defense costs will drive up the price to finish.

So... hopefully someone knows the minimum cost in raw resources (copper, iron, oil, coal, stone) to finish the game on marathon so I can see if it is even possible with the preset resource settings. Since on Deathworld Marathon expanding your base very far away is almost impossible to achieve.

Thank you to anyone who knows where to find this information!

FuryoftheStars
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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

I've never played at these settings but am generally curious, how would one really calculate that? Putting aside the defense costs as you mentioned, wouldn't it also heavily depend on how many assemblers/oil refineries/etc you build? I mean, you could probably theoretically finish the game by only ever building one of each, or just one of each for each type of product you need. But then that'd take a very, very long time to finish. Conversely, finishing faster means building more of everything.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by Drakken »

What I am looking for is mostly the research cost for all of the researches to get to the rocket and then the added rocket cost.

The cost of the factory itself is actually much much less than the thousands of advanced potions needed to tech up to the rocket itself. Defenses have a big cost as well, but it is still dwarfed by the cost of the potions for technology.

The costs for the potions for each tech is fixed and someone has done the calculations already. I was hoping someone knew where they are so I don't have to do all of the work required.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Ah, apologies, I missed the "research" part of all of that. :P

I'm afraid I've never seen what you are looking for, sorry.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by SoShootMe »

Researching Rocket silo and all prerequisites (recursively) with expensive technologies and price multiplier 4 (for applicable technologies), a script I wrote says you need:

22970 automation-science-pack
22260 logistic-science-pack
14600 chemical-science-pack
6400 production-science-pack
5200 utility-science-pack

To produce all of that and 100 rocket parts with expensive recipes, https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... H1q9g3B/AB says you need (rounded):

1.75M iron ore
1.38M copper ore
207k coal
74.7k stone
4.74M crude oil

However, in addition to ignoring the cost of the factory itself and defences, this is based on the bare minimum technology cost which is probably not practical - eg no military research. On the other hand, it doesn't account for any use of productivity modules which it might be possible to use to give an appreciable net saving (after crafting the modules themselves) for the production science packs, utility science packs and rocket parts. Similarly, researching mining productivity bonus 1 and 2 might be worthwhile.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by Drakken »

Thank you so much! This helps determine the playability of maps. I would hate to get 40 hours into a map and realize it is almost impossible to win.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by BlueTemplar »

Since on Deathworld Marathon expanding your base very far away is almost impossible to achieve.
Not at all ?
It's part of the requirement anyway, since by definition, oil doesn't spawn in your starting area :
Image
(Note that there was oil halfway closer, but a bit too close to a nest...)

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by Drakken »

It is hard for me to see where the oil actually is on that image. Is it the lower left base? If so, how are you getting the oil back to the main base? I don't see any infrastructure between the two?

All I can say is nice work... I do stand corrected and I often do not explain myself well on these forums...

I suppose my idea of the starting area is much larger than the game's "actual starting area" in which, you are correct, there is no oil. I consider the starting area to be about 1/2 of the way between the wreck site "starting position" and the edge of the map preview area. If the oil is past the outer half of the preview image, I can't seem to get to it before the biters evolve enough to overwhelm my pre-oil defenses. This is especially true if I have to destroy biter bases to get to it, which makes the evolution spike. AND once resources are more than half way to the edge of the preview area you almost always have biter bases in the way.

Obviously, the map spawn means a lot. I do not spawn maps to find an easier one. I spawn maps that puts the game on the very edge of win-ability. At least for someone of my skill level. I am no speed pro nor can I fight with my toon like a first person shooter. But I can make good decisions and designs that are very efficient in the long run.

What I should have said if I was being precise... DeathWorld Marathon with... max sand, minimal dirt, min grass, min trees, and no water/cliffs to create natural barriers, without using lasers, solar panels, or robots, makes it extremely difficult to expand your base more than half way to the edge of the preview of a map to get to oil and the additional resources needed to launch the rocket.

Finally, the real key is the oil. Flamethrower turrets are the key to getting past the beginning stages of DW/M and into the midgame where you can actually protect your base and ultimately win.

Edit... Not that it matters much because there is only one patch of water, but I do not use the fish either. Never thought instant healing was a good game mechanic. In fact, I have never caught, nor eaten a fish in over a thousand hours of this game. Kinda funny how we all play the way we think the game should be instead of how it is...

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by aka13 »

Drakken wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:56 am
Obviously, the map spawn means a lot. I do not spawn maps to find an easier one. I spawn maps that puts the game on the very edge of win-ability. At least for someone of my skill level. I am no speed pro nor can I fight with my toon like a first person shooter. But I can make good decisions and designs that are very efficient in the long run.
I don't think it comes down to that, I would even say, the trick is exactly the opposite. Don't overbuild, don't clear out nests to soon, don't consume stuff you don't need.
I have "just" started a new deathworld marathon, with default settings. I consider cliffs to be a hindrance to me, and not to biters, building a factory in the beginning, when you don't have cliff explosives, and can't afford them.
Water bodies bring a bit of safety, but not too much - I started out only having my back covered by one of them, and only managed to find/block off other ones, where I didn't need their protection already.
Screenshot 2022-01-14 095624.png
Screenshot 2022-01-14 095624.png (590.75 KiB) Viewed 191 times
I find maps without water rather disappointing - you can't really produce power without water, no wells can be build - and ExplosiveExcavation is not part of vanilla, so you cant create a small well for your nuclear/coal needs.
You also should not forget, that while water may be used as cover, water is even worse than sand at eating pollution - so you end up aggroing more spawners, than you otherwise would:
Screenshot 2022-01-14 095428.png
Screenshot 2022-01-14 095428.png (118.38 KiB) Viewed 191 times

Started out in the sands, as you see. I also try to finally do the two achievements "Raining bullets" and "steam all the way".

A couple of tips I can give:
1) Build small clove-leaf like outposts of 4-turrets in the beginning, at the perimeters of the area available to you, to prevent expansion. Clearing out nests by hand will be very tough and an unneeded evolution buff.
2) Beeline to oil, and to flamethrowers, if you don't make it to flamethrowers as fast as you can, your life will be tough.
3) After oil your life will be simpler, and I would try and go for the robots, because then you can then automate repairs and concentrate on the rest of your factory.
4) Go for the tank and explosive shells so you can clear out land for expansion. Don't try to expand the base too much, rather focus on outposts.
5) You don't have to protect the rails, 99% of the times biters will ignore them.
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.

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Re: What is the total cost to launch a rocket in marathon?

Post by Drakken »

I think there are two ways to play DW/M. One is the slow roll, thus controlling pollution. The second is to produce exactly what you need but fast enough and in enough abundance that you can protect yourself from biters. I think option number one works better for maps with more pollution absorption. I think the second method is better on maps with very little pollution absorption. Either way time is also a factor, although they toned "time evolution" down with one of the patches years ago.

You always have water at the start of the game (you can't even get started without it). But it is just one small source. No other water on the map anywhere. It ups the difficulty because you have to run power everywhere from your main base. AND you have to then take the chance that those lines will be cut by biters (or you can try to protect them). AND being able to be attacked from all directions with no choke points is harder IMHO. AND without bots, repairing/protecting the far flung resource outposts can be really hard and time consuming. AND water for your production facilities also have to come from the starter base.

The absorption of pollution is minimal for both sand and water. Desert, dirt, and grass increase it a little bit also but not much. Trees are the real pollution absorbers. Trees are what makes DW/M easier by a huge amount. A forest can stop pollution from expanding in one direction almost compIetely. At least long enough to make it to flame turrets.

I make my maps to absorb as little pollution as possible and yet leave open avenues in all directions for me to be attacked. I find this the hardest way to play, but to each their own.

I have seen the clover style defense before. I have not done it and perhaps I will give it a try to protect distant resources from spawner expansion. Usually I play maps that don't have unprotected resources nearby. I like to fight for them.

I am simply playing a different style than you are. Obviously if people are eliminating some of the features in the game, strategies have to be altered.

Thanks for the advice. Good luck with your games.

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