how do YOU manage barrels of oil?

[mrvn]

Haven't tested this but this might work:

Trains arrive at outpost loaded with empty barrels.
Each wagon has a single assembler at 1 tile from wagon
Stack inserter loads into assembler iff there is oil in the storage and the wagon is full.
Fast inserter loads full barrels into train.
Train leaves after 5 seconds of inactivity.

Should compute loading speed but since barreling is so much faster than pumping it might not be too bad...

The following might happen:

1. the assembler has no oil because the pump jacks are slow.
2. a train arrives and unloads barrels. Due to the stack bonus it overloads the assembler with empty barrels.
3. the train leaves after 5 seconds because no barrel gets filled in that time
4. the train picks up some more empty barrels so it is full again
5. the train arrives at the assembler
6. no empty barrels get unloaded because the assembler still has enough
7. no full barrels get loaded because the train is full
8. the train leaves to drive around uselessly without transporting any oil ever again

[Frightning]

it sounds as if i'm using a somewhat different approach: all train cars leave the refinery filled with empty barrels. All oil fields contain enough tankage to fill a train (2 cars @400 barrels is 20K oil units, so usually it's 9-10 tanks at 2.4K units each).

on reaching an oil field, a filter inserter extracts empty barrels to a staging chest, which the oil-2-barrel assembler draws from at need.

The output of the assembler buffers output to another chest, and from there to the train car.

Limits on the output chest are set to be the same size as the train car, and enough barrels are provided at the oil field that the assembler can have a full train's worth of filled barrels ready and waiting.

when the train arrives, the empty barrels are unloaded and the filled barrels are loaded, simultaneously.

the train stop condition is for full load of filled barrels. (now if i can just get more than one station to work automatically...)

My first ever automated oil train used more or less this same design, but with a single wagon (1-wagon is quite enough tbh, the throughput is plenty high enough to keep up with even the largest of oil fields in vanilla factorio).

[realm174]

It's been so long I can't quite remember how I did it at first, but at my current stage, here's what I have:

At the main base: Trains (One loco, one car, and the slots in the car are half reserved for empty and half reserved for full) arrives with a combination of empty/full barrels. Usually more full than empty when all is well Filtered inserter remove the full from the train into a chest, and a chest full of empty is refilling the proper slots. Bots take the full barrels to the processing area and bring back empty to the proper chest.
Conditions for the train to leave the base:
Crude = 0 AND
Empty > 100 AND
5 seconds of inactivity

That prevents the train from sitting there, blocking other trains in the rare event where I forgot to make enough empty barrels.

I currently have 11 outposts with pumpjacks, all equipped with 2 speed modules. Each outpost has anything from 3 to 14 jacks. Each outpost looks similar to this:



So the filter inserter fills the belt with empty barrels, that leaves enough buffer that there should be enough until the next train arrives. Conditions for the train at each outpost is:
10 seconds of inactivity OR
20 seconds passed

I have 7 trains doing the constant round, and at this point all the oil wells are "empty" By the time a train has completed the round it comes back with most of the "full barrels" slots filled up.

[vanatteveldt]

The following might happen:

1. the assembler has no oil because the pump jacks are slow.
2. a train arrives and unloads barrels. Due to the stack bonus it overloads the assembler with empty barrels.
3. the train leaves after 5 seconds because no barrel gets filled in that time
4. the train picks up some more empty barrels so it is full again
5. the train arrives at the assembler
6. no empty barrels get unloaded because the assembler still has enough
7. no full barrels get loaded because the train is full
8. the train leaves to drive around uselessly without transporting any oil ever again

(I'm assuming you're responding to my edited setup in the post below the one you're quoted)

This shouldn't be a problem as there are no empty barrels stacked in the refinery station, so he will return with the empty spots for those barrels. This could be problematic, of course, in a multi-train situation, as the unloaded but not filled/emptied barrels serve as a small buffer, and could cause imbalance by barrels moving between trains.

In a multiple outpost/multiple trains per outpost situation I see no other solution (with a no-chest/belt setup) than to guarantee that all barrels are processed, ie set leave condition to full (outpost) or empty (refinery) barrels=X.

If you have only one train per outpost (and if empty trains are a problem, you probably do) you can safely set it to leave after X seconds at the outpost and set it to leave on no full barrels plus inactivity at the refinery (so the train gets all its barrels back).

By making sure that all barrels stay with a train you can never get a deadlock situation. In a sense, I'm seeing a train wagon with barrels as a fluid tanker, and the assembler+inserters are the fluid loading system, which works as long as the barrels never leave the wagon.

(I also agree that stack inserters are a bad idea unless you are using ass3+sp3)

[Frightning]

~snip~
(I also agree that stack inserters are a bad idea unless you are using ass3+sp3)

With the Stack size bonus research, Stack inserters are strictly unnecessary for a single Assembly machine 3. Even a Fast Inserter can keep up. (2.22*3>3.75 crafting speed of max speed assem3, only with a beaconed setup would you ever need Stack inserters).

[vanatteveldt]

~snip~
(I also agree that stack inserters are a bad idea unless you are using ass3+sp3)

With the Stack size bonus research, Stack inserters are strictly unnecessary for a single Assembly machine 3. Even a Fast Inserter can keep up. (2.22*3>3.75 crafting speed of max speed assem3, only with a beaconed setup would you ever need Stack inserters).

Thanks, didn't know that, I just somehow assumed that fast inserters wouldn't be enough, always good to have actual numbers

[reallyLost]

I reserve 50% of a wagon for full barrels. I leave the other half unreserved just to allow the possibility that the first few trips will return with more than 50% full if the oil is very rich. However since those extra barrels are not returned to the outpost the system will eventually stabilize with each trip moving at most half a trains worth of barrels. I've been meaning for a while now to make it a bit smarter and have each train always return to the outpost exactly the same number in empties as it took in fulls. That should make it possible for the trains to move barrels at maximum throughput without any clogging problems.

[cdp181]

I have completely seperate trains delivering empty barrels. The trains picking up full barrels are just generic pick everything up trains which dump everything at a sorting depot.

But don't listen to me, I have 230k of full barrels and 90k of empty barrels at the moment

[Aeternus]

Haven't tried it yet - my megacomplex isn't so big yet that it can't pipe oil back. But I'm planning to and with this setup:
- Have enough fluid tanks (at least 4, but >=5 recommended to prevent the pumpjacks from going idle) at the oil outpost to guarantee a wagonload of oil (or 2, but oil barrels are so dense that 1 wagon will probably do). Train should not arrive until this is the case.
- Use 2 train stations in series. Oil Outpost Unload, Oil Outpost Load. Train first goes to Oil Outpost Unload where it drops off empty barrels (full unload). These go via a small buffer chest straight to the loading facility
- From the loading facility the full barrels are dumped onto a belt. No buffer is needed here, the train is loaded straight from the belt (which has to loop back onto itself in a caroussel if you've got multiple wagons to ensure no barrel gets stuck at the end of a belt).
- Once the train is empty, it moves up to Oil Outpost Load (which is a smidgen further) and waits until it's fully loaded. Every barrel unloaded at the outpost is also loaded back in the train before it leaves (which is why it's important to ensure there's enough oil or the train will wait forever)

At the refinery:
- Again two stations. Oil Refinery Unload and Oil Refinery Load
- At Unload: Train waits until fully unloaded. Full barrels are dumped into a buffer chest for unloading. Buffer value is summed and stored as value "A" for circuit network use.
- Emptied barrels are dumped into a loading buffer. Buffer value is summed as value "B" for circuit network use.
- A small barrel production plant manufactures barrels if "A" + "B" is less then 2 trainloads of barrels (exact value depends on train length).
- At Load: Train waits until fully loaded with empty barrels.

Pro's:
This design will not use separate wagons for empty and full, so the "until full/until empty" conditions can be easily used. The full train capacity is used for transit.
Mining bases don't need to be primed, no barrels need to be present at the pumpjack outposts once built. None will be left there once dismantled either, if you ever do.

Cons:
Design uses extra stations, so the track length needed at loading/unloading is a bit longer.
Requires a full cargoload before the train can leave - fetching a partial cargo is not possible. Signalling that a station is ready to receive the train (and buffering a cargoload in storage tanks) before sending it is recommended.

I might tinker with this design a bit since I prefer to also load some extra supplies in trains heading to resource outposts (spare turrets, spare walls, spare repair packs and medium power poles - enough to repair and/or rebuild defenses at the outpost, I want 0 micromanagement once the damn thing is set up). Might end up doing a full unload and counting the barrels passing into the train using some combinators - letting it leave after 360 have been shoved in the wagon (since I'd need 4 reserved slots for the outpost supply bay).

[Lemlin]

Unloading barrels will be much easier in 0.15 when you can read the trains contents.

The only step is: Unload the full barrels from the and fill it up until to the desired amount.
No weird and complicated designs required.

Loading can be the usual "wait until barrels are more than X" and/or a time passed/inactive command.

[Proxy]

Loading Oil.


Unloading Oil


Pretty simple, uses a Finite amount of Barrels in a closed system.
and is Expandable with either more Assmeblers, and/or Beacons!
might not the best in terms of efficency, but it works very well.
100 Barrels gives you 1 full storage tank per circle.

as for the Trains,i use the "X Item count" Trigger. I mean really, it was made for Barreling!

[Mehve]

The loading end of my oil setup, handled by single train/wagon setups. For high volume, I've taken a liking to direct load/unload, where the entire wagon is full of empties, and they're directly replaced by full barrels. No slot filters needed, and 10K crude/car.


They meet up at a hub where their loads are switched to a 4L/8C configuration for final delivery to the factory. The incoming side can be expanded pretty much indefinitely. Though really hard about how to integrate a coal delivery line, then realized that was stupid, and it was simpler to just grab the occasional barrel for solid fuel production.


At the final factory, they're moved onto a belt and converted back to liquid for the final pipeline run. Went through SO MANY attempts to evenly offload the 4L/8C configurations. Interconnected assemblers, pumps as flow limiters... you just can't balance liquid flow the way you can belt flow, and by the time half the wagons were empty, I was hitting throughput bottlenecks. Figured out some great designs for smaller train configurations, but in the end I just offloaded the wagons onto a balancer and let the assemblers grab whatever they need from a common belt. It feels like a bit of a cludge compared to my earlier elegant direct-to-assembler attempts, but on the plus side - it actually works!
/////

[aober93]

The first thing i do when having barrels is ,set up a production for empty barrels with just 1 assembler at my oil hub/refinery thing, and put them in a provider chest. I make the feeding inserter stop if theres more than 10 in that chest. So the system takes what it needs, and theres never an overproduction for the rest of the game. I make sure that the empty barrels are returned in time.

[Frightning]

The loading end of my oil setup, handled by single train/wagon setups. For high volume, I've taken a liking to direct load/unload, where the entire wagon is full of empties, and they're directly replaced by full barrels. No slot filters needed, and 10K crude/car.

Yon don't actually need those unloading inserters to be filter inserters. This is because it's a direct feed arrangement, and therefore the inserter will only grab items that actually go with the recipe inputs.

[Mehve]

Yeah, that's since occurred to me, and the new blueprint was updated accordingly. I do need them for offloading at the transfer station since they load onto belts, I was probably thinking about that at the time. I originally used the stacking versions as well, but realized that they weren't needed since I was using multiple assemblers.

[NorwegianBlue]

I find the barrelling problem quite interesting, and am a bit disappointed that fluid wagons will make it all so simple.

[Aeternus]

Arright, tinkered with it and found a relatively simple solution:
At loading station (1 wagon wide, we'll use the entire train car for loading which means 10k crude): Flank the station with at least 4 tanks, and flank 2 Assemblers on each side as well to load/unload barrels directly into the assembler, and back in the train. Since assemblers buffer 3 barrels each, one stack will be cleared and the assemblers can dump the full barrels back into the train. This setup requires 2 assemblers on each side of the wagon. Contents of the storage tanks gets sent to the train via circuit network. Train leaves at condition: "Crude Oil > 500 AND 5 seconds inactivity" at which point you know it's full. Very similar to Mehve's design, though I've oriented the tanks a bit differently, connecting them in a circle with underground pipes going under the rails. Simple basic Inserters work well enough for loading/unloading the barrels, 'though you could do a fast inserter for slightly higher throughput. Stack inserter seems excessive to me (tho for unloading, it would clear the first stack in the wagon to empty quicker)
Every barrel it arrived with gets sent back to the refinery.

At refinery: Again, 4 tanks so that unloading can proceed quickly. Toss a pump between the tanks and the refinery to prevent backflow from other unloading docks, if any. Close the arrival platform until there's 10K capacity in the tanks (set arrival signal red on circuit condition Crude > 0+whatever extra buffer you have). Again, flank the unloading dock with 4 assemblers that feed barrels to and from the train directly. Since you know you can empty the entire trainload into the buffer, set condition "5 seconds of inactivity" as the departure signal.
With 10K crude per wagon, I've not found a need to use more then one wagon, but this design is scalable to any train length - just impractical for huge trains since the storage capacity required becomes silly - you'd need to put the tanks behind the unloading assemblers (can't put em to the side since they'd conflict with the next wagon and this setup requires both sides of the rails to be used - to drain that first stack into the assemblers) so the width of the unloading station would become... very large. But if you do a transfer to a big train, it might be feasable to use a massive unloading dock like this. Short trains tend to be fast so I prefer short and often over huge and infrequent - you can even have one train service multiple outposts - with some smart signalling you can tell it to go to an outpost that has a full cargo waiting.

This setup requires that upon creating such a train, it's first sent to a depot to be fully loaded with empty barrels. After that, the barrels never go on a belt, and the entire wagon capacity is used for transport.

[mazedragon]

I guess I'm sort of strange, I enjoy managing all those barrels.. and I'm using bobs & angels mods so there are a lot more fluids, plus gasses to manage, and I'm doing them in similar ways.

Essentially I have one central sushi belt ring (the carousel, as I refer to it) offering empty barrels to all the barreling machines/pumps. The machines dump their barreled materials onto one common belt, which ships full barrels off to the station to be loaded onto trains; filter inserters at the station load them into crates for faster loading once a train is present, and if the crate is ever full enough (usually 100-200 barrels standing by), a circuit network tells the barreling machines to stop sending more full barrels.

My trains are set up with 2 cargo cars for barrels; the first car is always barrels being sent out to the remote outposts (they may be empties, or they may contain fluids those sites require). The second car always has barrels being returned, which might be full of oil, waste materials, or empty barrels. Full barrels are emptied, and all the empty barrels are dumped onto a belt taking them back to the carousel for re-use. If that belt ever overfills, barrels are pulled off and dumped into a active provider chest to send them off to the logistic network for archiving.

If the carousel ever winds up too empty, it signals a belt to start up and allow new barrels to come in. first it tries taking barrels out of a requester chest, which will pull any archived barrels back out of the logistics network, and if that cannot meet the demand, a machine will start creating new barrels to fill the demand.

All the satellite stations pull barrels of materials they need from the first car, empty them as needed, then move them to be loaded to the second car. If those stations work with a lot of fluids, they can grab spare empty barrels and load them up if the station isn't being delivered enough empty bottles.

The fluid cars look like they will make basic handling easier, but I'm not sure if they'd work so well for sending smaller amounts of differing fluids between stations. Besides, I enjoy this, so I might just skip them, it's nice that the game offers a choice like that.

I'd offer some screen shots, but I'm not in front of the gaming machine right now.. and it's also still a mess, I would need to (and probably should) do a lot of cleanup work before it was presentable!

[mrvn]

I recently updated to 0.15 and this gives this thread a whole new answer:

Q: how do YOU manage barrels of oil?
A: I don't.

I switched to using the new pumps and fluid wagons. At the pump jacks I have 3 pumps that connect to the 3 parts of the fluid wagon (3 pumps spaced 2 m apart). The input sides of the pumps are connected with straight pipes and then 3 oil tanks. The Pump jacks are connected to the tanks. At the refinery I have the exact same setup except with the pumps reverse so they empty the fluid wagon.

3 oil tanks are enough to fill or empty a fluid wagon and the new pumps are incredible fast. So filling or emptying a fluid wagon is a matter of seconds. Overall I found that 3 tanks and 3 pumps are total overkill and the fluid wagon is way to big to wait for it to be filled as the pump jacks degrade to 0.1/s.
Next time I will just have one pump and one tank. For the trains I started with setting the condition to empty/full but now I've switched to check the fluid level at the pump jacks so the train doesn't wait hours for it to get filled (I only have 4 pump jacks).

Note: I always try to create the pump jacks early with plenty of tanks before setting up any other oil stuff. Let them fill the tanks, they will empty quickly enough once oil processing is set up later. But even one tank and a fluid wagon (same as 4 tanks) should suffice. Just build the train stop when you build the pump jacks.

[Shokubai]

With the advent of rail tankers I only do local barreling for logistic bot use. I do not transport barrels by rail.

A working example of this.

• Train delivers petro to my main base and is offloaded to tank in proximity.
• Petro is canned and output inserters monitor X amount of canned petro in network
• Requester chests feed a decanner by my Plastic/Sulfur/acid factory.
• Empties are reintroduced to the system
• Elsewhere Cans are made to some network threshold.

This works well if you wish to avoid piping through your base and don't want to transport cans.