Steam summer sale and factorio

[kovarex]

Not having a sale ever is part of our philosophy. In short term, they are good and bring extra money, but we are targeting long term. I believe that searching for sales is wasted time, and people should decide on the price and value, but putting option of wasting time to search for deals or waiting seems like bad part of the equation.
As an example I would like to mention Minecraft. I'm not aware of any sale of it

[brunzenstein]

Not having a sale ever is part of our philosophy. In short term, they are good and bring extra money, but we are targeting long term. I believe that searching for sales is wasted time, and people should decide on the price and value, but putting option of wasting time to search for deals or waiting seems like bad part of the equation.
As an example I would like to mention Minecraft. I'm not aware of any sale of it

I sign that!

[taiiat]

If you think it is priced too high, then it is your choice to not purchase, and we hope that with enough time, and extra development, we will be able to convince you of its value.

i approve. super high-five.

[StarFox31]

Not having a sale ever is part of our philosophy. In short term, they are good and bring extra money, but we are targeting long term. I believe that searching for sales is wasted time, and people should decide on the price and value, but putting option of wasting time to search for deals or waiting seems like bad part of the equation.
As an example I would like to mention Minecraft. I'm not aware of any sale of it

This is an excellent explanation.

At the beginning of this post I was all for the sales so that Factorio could be on the front page. However after reading the Dev's responses I wholeheartedly agree with them. Excellent job on changing my mind.

[zytukin]

I wouldn't be surprised if a good percentage of people who wait for sales are people who aren't very interested in a game to begin with.
This results in more players who may end up not liking the game, giving bad reviews, and demanding refunds.

[brunzenstein]

I wouldn't be surprised if a good percentage of people who wait for sales are people who aren't very interested in a game to begin with.
This results in more players who may end up not liking the game, giving bad reviews, and demanding refunds.

Exactly!

[Afforess]

Not having a sale ever is part of our philosophy. In short term, they are good and bring extra money, but we are targeting long term. I believe that searching for sales is wasted time, and people should decide on the price and value, but putting option of wasting time to search for deals or waiting seems like bad part of the equation.
As an example I would like to mention Minecraft. I'm not aware of any sale of it

I fully support and agree with your reasoning about sales.

I have a counter-proposal, have you considered doing a negative sale? Raise the price temporarily by 25% during the steam summer sale?

I know Cards Against Humanity did this which favorable press coverage during Black Friday events.

[verusfossa]

I support your stance on this. Game development has sadly become a race to the bottom. I'm all for competition, but developers often get crushed because they consider adoption over all else. Focus on making a good game, adoption will follow from that. Gimmicks, gifts and DLCs fizzle out fast and disincentive late adoption. Minecraft somehow maintained a more or less consistent price point by simply updating the same game and getting generations of followers. No reason Factorio can't do the same. Bending to storefront's periodic sales puts the wrong organization in the driver's seat IMO.

[brunzenstein]

I have a counter-proposal, have you considered doing a negative sale? Raise the price temporarily by 25% during the steam summer sale?

An excellent idea!

[daniel34]

I have a counter-proposal, have you considered doing a negative sale? Raise the price temporarily by 25% during the steam summer sale?

I know Cards Against Humanity did this which favorable press coverage during Black Friday events.

https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/blackfriday/
1) Cards Against Humanity is an actual physical card game
2) They close their shop and give their customers the ability to buy nothing from them for $5
3) Most of the time the raised money goes towards charity and non-profits

Or maybe you're thinking about Tabletop Simulator (a card playing simulator, Cards against Humanity is one of its workshop mods) which had the unfortunate coincidence to get out of Early Access at the same time as the Steam Summer Sale, which increased the price and resulted in negative feedback from the customers. They even posted a clarification on Reddit due to that feedback.
Factorio would get the same negative feedback if it increased its price during Summer Sale, but without the possibility to clarify the situation.

[steinio]

The developers made their point and this thread should be closed.

[zytukin]

The developers made their point and this thread should be closed.

Why does it have to be closed? Why can't people enjoy a discussion anyway even if the devs wont change their stance on the subject?

Anybody who thinks the topic is pointless could simply not read or take part in it.
That's one of the joys of having the freedom to choose what you do on the internet.

[mooklepticon]

I find the lack of sales a fascinating concept. The psychology of buying and humanity's reaction to marketing is very interesting to me.

I've seen the lack of sales in other places.(JC Penney tried it in 2012 and it failed. NB: JC Penney demographic is definitely not the same as factorio's.) The theory is that sales are a form a advertising and hype. I know I love getting a good deal. 10% off? I feel like I won something! I should tell my friend! Oh, that sale has limited time, I should buy it RIGHT FREAKING NOW. So, yes, they do generate income because you'll get more sales.

Some of the downside of sales is that you can get too big, too fast. Yes, that is a problem. Go research any Kickstarter that got MASSIVELY over-funded. They didn't know how to handle it. It's similar, not the same, to people who become too famous too fast and lose their minds.

Another downside is the *kind* of customer you get. If you want a fully-engaged customer, you have to make them pay for it. I can't find the exact link I'm looking for, but there's studies to show that paying for something makes you like it more, sort of as a post-purchase rationalization. If you pay for a course, you're more likely to complete it, etc. The barrier to entry creates a different kind of customer/participant and then they're more committed when they're in it.

See also Three Reasons Why We Buy Those Crazy Steam Bundles
Sunk Costs, Pre-Orders, and Game Over

I'll be fascinated to see how this works for factorio. IMO, with a community-based game that factorio is (and it is, see all the mods and the activity here and in the subreddit) that no-sales is a completely valid strategy. For a different type of player base, it may not be valid.

[taiiat]

So, yes, they do generate income because you'll get more sales.

it only works super well when the product for sale is considered expensive in the first place, where the Consumer might be interested in shaving the price down.

your JCpenny example - the Consumers buying there are certainly different - but that garbage is all hilariously overpriced in the first place. so no wonder people jump at sales, they know it's expensive for what it is.

[Killavirus]

The developers made their point and this thread should be closed.

Yeah I'm going to disagree with this as well, It's not about continuing an argument, closing it is quite draconian "WE SAY NO : LOCKED" all that does is foster negative vibes.

Also I enjoyed the suggestions for negative sales, made me smile

[Klonan]

The developers made their point and this thread should be closed.

Yeah I'm going to disagree with this as well, It's not about continuing an argument, closing it is quite draconian "WE SAY NO : LOCKED" all that does is foster negative vibes.

Also I enjoyed the suggestions for negative sales, made me smile

Don't worry, we don't close threads unless there is some toxic behavior brewing

[Killavirus]

The developers made their point and this thread should be closed.

Yeah I'm going to disagree with this as well, It's not about continuing an argument, closing it is quite draconian "WE SAY NO : LOCKED" all that does is foster negative vibes.

Also I enjoyed the suggestions for negative sales, made me smile

Don't worry, we don't close threads unless there is some toxic behavior brewing

This is literally what makes your company and forums so nice. The hardest task will be keeping that ethos with growth. Fingers crossed and all that jazz
Many thanks for al the extra time and work put in, but all the staff team and moderators If your ever near Gatwick, feel free to demand I swing by and buy you a pint !!!! (yup i mean that)

[Stede]

I bought Factorio at $20 USD. A week later, I gifted two copies to my brothers. The value in this game is absolutely insane. The mods and community are a dream. I love the game, and I'll get more play out of it than 5-10 games that cost $60, without question - probably much, much more.

While it would be cool to get more exposure for the game - there's something I think we should all keep in mind. Folks that enjoy this niche - we will find the game just by virtue of it being on steam - tags and Queues and ratings have made it easier than ever to find your virtual crack these days. There just aren't that many great games currently in genre, imo, and Factorio stands out so well right now.

[siggboy]

I'm somebody who has binged hard in the past during Steam sales (winter); many of those games I've bought I haven't even played yet. I just spent a lot more money on games during those sales than I would otherwise have.

In my opinion, going into a Steam sale with your game is a way of advertising the game (same with going into the Humble Store sale or participating in a Humble Bundle). It has nothing to do with dishonesty towards those who have bought the game at full price.

If "sales" made people mad for that reason (that they might have paid "full" price earlier), then no clothing store would ever have sales for fear of their customers not returning -- but they have sales all the time.

Same with Black Friday in the USA, I haven't heard that it makes people mad at the companies that are throwing stuff at them. To the contrary, people go on a shopping frenzy that day.

Since you've now put your foot down and firmly stated that there will never be a sale of the game, it's probably very moot to discuss the point. I personally think it's a missed opportunity for cheap advertising and generating a lot more sales in the long term.

(The Kerbal Space Program developers, for example, have stated that the Steam sales are a huge, huge, part of their revenue, and they would probably not be able to sustain themselves with regular sales of the game only. While that is obviously very different with Factorio, it shows how big an impact those sales can have for an Indie game.)

[DaveMcW]

The cheapest KSP sale in the past couple years has been $18. Factorio is priced similarly, all the time.