Replayability of factorio

[imajor]

I love factorio, but one thing bothers me. Wouldn't the fun be less as you play more and more maps? I mean what prevents you to reuse the patters for the factory you come up with in the previous map, or the pattern you saw on the forum producing some goods in a very efficient way? What forces you to come up with new designs? It feels to me that even if you play on a random map, there is not enough diversity. You can always find a big enough plain, and build the same good factory you built last time. Maybe if the land type (sand grass etc) would affect the speed of the assembly units?

I only played two maps so far, and I really enjoyed them both. So I'm just interested in the experience of other players, was it fun even for the 10th time (I guess it was, otherwise there was no 10th time)

[DerivePi]

It took me about 12 games to become tired of the base game. Then I played with Dytech and Treefarm for a handful of games. After that I went back to the base game with some new ideas for the layout. I played a couple games there and now I'm working through Bobs Mods. I am looking forward to the upcoming base game changes for 0.12. I've messed around with biter intensity and water size, but the base map generator needs some work (not interested in playing on an island or starting with an iron ore, coal, stone, oil... field 500 tiles from a copper field). Might try Resource Overhaul Mod next.

[Xterminator]

I think a lot of it depends on the person to be honest. There are people on this forum who have easily 500+ hours with just the vanilla game. While others get bored after one complete run. Personally I got a bit bored after about 2-3 vanilla playthroughs, but that where mods come in. Now I just play with mods and still greatly enjoy the game. For me, there are still many different ways I have not built a factory yet, so there is still a lot of playability left, not to mention the 0.12 update coming soon that completely changes the end game.

A few suggestions for keeping it interesting for yourself:
Have tried a hard mode or death world with biters all set to max settings?
Have you done a completely robot based factory? Like moduler setups only using logistics system once you get there?
Have you done a huge main bus factory?
Have tried mods? Big ones like Dytech and Bobs mods really change how the game plays and makes it a lot more complex.

Hope this helps.

[kiba]

Geography don't play much role in building factories, even with resource generation being far enough to require trains.

If the developers ever implement 3D terrains or just underground layers, it would get real interesting.

For example, probably the best location to put an artillery or a gun turret is on hills, which gives range bonus. It also makes it hard for enemies to attack because they have to climb the hill, which slows them down. However, hills are annoying, because they get in the way of building flat factories.

Rivers are like conveyor belts, except on water. You construct barges and float materials down, which is more energy efficient than taking the train. It's also a way to generate electricity since you can just stick a waterwheel in it.

All the dirt could be used something or mined or sorted for its minerals. For example, you could mine gold from the ocean.

But it's much lower qualities and therefore cost more from an energy and production perspective. So it's still crucial to prospect or find ores.

[cpy]

If spawn area wasn't so bad default map generator is still bad, resource overhaul is quite good in this but it lack variety but it have stable resource generator.

[Xeteth]

I do see what you mean about it being somewhat difficult to replay the game - I however easily alleviate this issue by setting myself goals in the game.

For example my current world has one mega factory that has 5 assemblers for every item in the game. This is all going to be fed by trains coming from an enormous smelting facility, which gets all ores from 20 large mining stations.

My previous game I had a fun/interesting setup where I had multiple bases (factory, smelting, circuits, oil etc) and resources could only be transported between these bases by a single train - yep it ended up having ~80 carriages

Set yourself goals, or do something interesting and you'll find there is a ton of replay value in vanilla alone. Then you of course have mods on top of that.

[imajor]

Sure you can make it interesting by setting up goals, or using mods. I was just wondering if there are any plans to put more variety in the vanilla game with maps? Like more role for the geography?

[wwdragon]

After getting to top technology, it seems like the only reason to play now, is to try out new things released in patches.

I've not tried multiplayer though.

[Yacc]

this is also the only issue i have with this awesome game. i really love the game but its getting repetive when you figured everything out and have created an almost flawless factory

i played the campaign, then one regular game, i was able to finish it in around 100 hours and did an second playthrough with dytech mod. also finished all research after 70-100 hours.

i think i played factorio for around 200-250 hours in just 2-3 weeks and i want to play it even more, but i cant find any goals to set for myself, im not into self imposed rules like smallest factory possible, or nothing crafted by hand.

just would like to see the game constantly face me with new problems i have to find solutions for. i dont know what the devs have in mind for future content updates.

would like to see environmental dangers, with some sort of defense i can engineer, volcanos, storms, probably magnetic storms, toxic rain, acid/corrosive rain.

this also let me think about other planets with other conditions.

what i really want to see is some randomness which creates unique obstacles in every playthrough but i have no idea what this could it be.

[vampiricdust]

Ok.... you guys do realize that 100 hours of playtime from a game is pretty nuts right? I've gotten near 1k hours out of Factorio and probably another 2-3k before I get tired of it. KSP I got over 1k hours out of and still play it a bit here & there. There are $60 AAA titles that you would be luck to get more than 20-30 hours of game play. The limit to replayability is you, not the game and I think we get plenty from Factorio as it is. We're already getting a bargain deal of cost per hour on this game, I'd say if you want more, modding is the way to go forward.

You have to mindful of what's realistic and the value you're already got from the game. If you're bored of the game, play something else for awhile, keep an eye on mods & the updates as the game gets completed. Eventually, you'll come back & get another couple hundred hours out of it, but I'd say any game that gives you more than 40 hours of gameplay is worth up to $60 as that's only slightly more than $1 per hour of play at 40.

[MeduSalem]

Well, of course there could be some more optional (so you don't have to if you don't like it) randomness to the gameplay, like unique geographic obstacles/problems and other events that could make your factorio-day all miserable (or better) and stuff and which could result in unique playthroughs everytime rather than being able to stamp the same factory in each and every map that gets generated and that follow the exact same process of research or production chains.

Don't know how much will change about that with the 0.13 space stuff, so it might actually change in a few months from now.


But that being said, in my opinion Factorio is like one of last games I'd complain about when it boils down to replayability, because I've invested more time into it than into most of the other generic AAA crap out there that companies had the dishonor to dump into the stores the past 10 years.

Which makes me think that Factorio is seriously underpriced, because like vampiricdust, I've seen 60$ titles that I gave up on after 2-5 hours of play because of how boring and repetitive they got after that and which only exist because they have a great franchise name to hide behind and use as an excuse for why those games are so crappy to begin with.

Eventually there's no game that doesn't suffer the "replayability"-issue at some point, so it's really a question of how many hours you are in before you get that feeling and if you are a few hundreds of hours in then the game did its job pretty damn well because nowadays you won't find as many games anymore that will offer the same without being a grindhell, which Factorio is not if you are doing things right. If I had something to say I'd say that Factorio is an alltime classic already one can always return to, like a good movie that never gets old.

[imajor]

I agree with you, that factorio already offers much more gameplay than most of the AAA games out there. If you only play a normal game on a normal map, make the rocket, that alone will be way more than 10 hours, and all of that is really interesting. The only reason why I'm talking about replayability is that I feel that it wouldn't take too much to improve that, and then this awesome game could be even better. So I understand if the devs say this is not a problem, because a single game (especially with the platform addition in 0.13) will give the player lots of very exciting hours of gameplay. So I think that my problem is that the game is simply too good. When I finish with a game, I want to start over on another map, but if I don't use mods, and don't make my own personal goals, the game will not really be different than the previous run.

[Yacc]

dont get me wrong, iam not complaining about that i have not got enough value for the price, its fine, its extremely cheap for the amount of time and fun you can get out of factorio, its a great game! but no game is perfect
i am also not demanding, iam just hoping and want to share my opinion. persons are different you know, just because i cant get 3.000 hours of playtime out of factorio there is nothing wrong with me or other players, still loving the game for what it is and how it stands now.

i just really like this game so much and want it to play it even more, but everything i would do now, would be just copying my old factory and doing it almost exactly the same way how i did it the last time, probably only improving a few minor things. though i love to optimize things, min-maxing everything and i love to build big as long it serves a reasonable purpose.
but all maps are so similar, except if i would go crazy with the amount of water, which i dont like to do. but without that its not offering me a new challenge.

for example i love to play the paradox grand strategy games because of their insane amount of replayability, every playthrough is different up to a certain point in the game. i just spent a couple of thousands hours in to these games just for their nice random factor.
i know these games cannot really being compared, but what keeps me playing these games, is only the random factor and also the high and deep complexity, which of course is also present in factorio, especially when modded. factorio is just lacking some difference between the playthroughs.

i also spent couple thousand hours playing dwarf fortress, the randomness of df is just insane, again it cannot really being compared, well maybe a little bit, you mine ore, smelt it, having production lines to some degree.

just hoping that factorio will offer some sort of randomness in the future, so the player has to adapt to the changing situations accordingly, situations doesnt have to change mainly while running a factory.
i think it woud actually make a big difference if just the worlds would be way more different, probably more extreme differences between the biomes, probably unique ressources for different biomes, probably each having some drawbacks and advantages.

maybe interplanetary transport of ressources unique to some planets, i really would like to see something like that.

dont forget, its still in developement so its a natural thing that its lacking some things. also because of that, its perfectly reasonable to suggest some improvements, and having some wishes about the game.

[Tinyboss]

What would be a good way to make one world different from another, though? There are only seven base materials (water, wood, iron, copper, coal, oil, and alien eggs) and you can't do without any one of them. You can't skip any part of the tech tree, either, apart from combat stuff. If one of the base materials is in short supply, there are only very limited adjustments you can make while you search for more of it. There's not really more than one way to do anything, so there aren't workarounds.

I'm with the others (and you!) who have said that by the time you've got the "perfect" factory, you've played long enough to have gotten your money's worth and then some. I think Factorio's just not built to have each playthrough be different from the last. Unless you make it that way yourself, by trying a new factory design or self-imposed challenge.

[Yacc]

ah, i see a little bit of misunderstanding, of course at the moment its hard/impossible to make the maps different with unique challenges and obstacles each time. this would only work if they would add new buildings and ressources, which we can get from and use in different areas, with these areas having their unique challenge. no wood in deserts, plants clogging your factory in jungles. water freezing in cold areas. muddy areas which have to be dried/paved before something can be built on top, maybe sand slowing the gears. just a few ideas. probably the devs could come up with something better

[varenvel]

Ok.... you guys do realize that 100 hours of playtime from a game is pretty nuts right? I've gotten near 1k hours out of Factorio and probably another 2-3k before I get tired of it. KSP I got over 1k hours out of and still play it a bit here & there. There are $60 AAA titles that you would be luck to get more than 20-30 hours of game play. The limit to replayability is you, not the game and I think we get plenty from Factorio as it is. We're already getting a bargain deal of cost per hour on this game, I'd say if you want more, modding is the way to go forward.

You have to mindful of what's realistic and the value you're already got from the game. If you're bored of the game, play something else for awhile, keep an eye on mods & the updates as the game gets completed. Eventually, you'll come back & get another couple hundred hours out of it, but I'd say any game that gives you more than 40 hours of gameplay is worth up to $60 as that's only slightly more than $1 per hour of play at 40.

100 hour nuts? i played company of heroes 1 for about 1000 , know people who played team fortress for 1500 and i played over 1600 hour in minecraft/Various FTB packs

[ratchetfreak]

100 hour nuts? i played company of heroes 1 for about 1000 , know people who played team fortress for 1500 and i played over 1600 hour in minecraft/Various FTB packs

compare that to the average AAA title where 20 hours (without artificial playtime extension) is a lot.

[Kayser]

I think the game would improve much in terms of replayability from a number of fixed "races" to play as, all with some quirks and different unique arttributes, Buildings and/or technology. For example one that is worthless at hand-crafting but with awsome assemblers; another with slower belts but awsome electricity production, etc.

Another way to introduce replayability would be to define a fixed set of Worlds to play on with pre-set parameters. This would allow you to say you are playing on e.g. "Altair" or "Waterwold" and it would be possible to talk about it and discuss in an interesting way. Custom World would still be available, as an alternative.

Third idea: You get to select what you want to pack in your spaceship as starting materials. Also in this area, the game should have some different pre-defined starter kits to match difficulty and/or race.

This might all be inspired by the Civilization and Master of Orion series, but those games have great replayability so why not copy the concept.

[Gus_Smedstad]

Playing with the Marathon and Resource Spawner Overhaul mods changed the game significantly for me.

The upside was huge: railroads were a necessity due to the distance to additional ore sources, and progress slowed down enough so I actually spent time in most stages, instead of blowing by them and never building anything at a given tech stage. I had a burner economy for a while, and cared about getting piercing rounds and gun turret upgrades because laser turrets were too far in the future. I cleared some nests with heavy armor and a shotgun, which I no reason to do before.

It has some drawbacks, namely the balance is a bit off compared to the vanilla game. Electronics are hugely expensive in time and materials, which means the demand for petroleum is largely unimportant - it was always the electronics cost limiting me, not sulfuric acid or plastics. Modules are far too expensive for what they do, since they depend on electronics, advanced circuits, and processors. Only the Productivity modules were practical, since they boost the overall production rate of intermediate items which require electronics.

Anyway, the upshot of this is that if I were to tinker with the base game, it would be to add optional higher difficulty levels which mimicked some of the effects of these mods, making things more distant, research slower, and things more expensive. Factorio has a somewhat steep learning curve, so it's not appropriate for new players, but it's a refreshing change of pace once you've mastered the game.

To draw the Civilization analogy, Civ's difficulty levels have done two things: boosted AI bonuses, and make the rules harder for everyone by lowering the Unhappiness thresholds (and in IV, the health thresholds). Factorio could stand some of the same for experienced players. Bullet-sponge enemies like the Behemoths are far less interesting than changes to the player's production lines.

[imajor]

Even if I just want to play a single game, I feel that the map has no real meanings, it is just a flat area (except for water, if you don't use landfill). Making the map features more important would also improve replayability, so I would vote for that.