thoughts about [0.5.0]

[slpwnd]

I can't imagine the devs testing it before releasing. Seriously guys, what's wrong with you?

There is nothing wrong with us. We test our releases however not as much as we would wanted. Yes, sometimes there are silly bugs in the experimental releases (like the pump can't be build, or map generator crashes immediately, etc.). However that is where the community here at the forums helps us a lot.

I don't care whether it has new UI or some God controller scenario.

Some people care about the features. We could freeze the game as it is and do nothing but fixing bugs and improving speed. However the outcome of this would probably be that not many more people would be interested in Factorio.

For me the game is unplayable since 0.3 series.

I am sorry for that.

I skipped 0.4 series as I noticed the slowness bug hasn't been resolved and it was generally buggy.

The current method for using forum threads for bug reports is not perfect. However there are positives to this approach as well. Your bug report simply got abandoned. In general if you have a serious bug and you see that nothing is happening bumping the thread now and then is a good idea.

And now this? WTF? I can't even generate a new map! Have you seen what the map generator actually generates? No mention that it mostly ignores the map settings...

Could you please be more constructive? The map generator in 0.5.1 works fine afaik. It generates reasonably looking maps with starting circle without enemies and with basic resources.

I don't care how many new features it has. I care about stability and playability. And don't come at me with "it's an alpha" or "your bug is not serious enough". If it crashes like it does, there's something seriously wrong with the code, the dev cycle or the developers. I know it's an alpha and it may crash, but hell, the bug has been reported since 0.3 series!

No one said your bug is not serious enough. Actually the bug in the map generator you have reported is very serious. It is just that it got burried in the bug forums. This can happen and bumping the thread would have helped.

And lastly, which is the thing I care about the least, I payed money for this game. I would expect some responsibility. At least some some reply from the devs, like reason why aren't they fixing it.

If you are disappointed with our approach and you think you haven't gotten the value you paid for then please send us an email and we will give you your money back.

[MF-]

Whatever you describe it as, that's not the point.

It is the point.
Experimental builds are only for players that want to help with testing. They allow the devs to distribute the bughunting among masses.
It is your problem that you don't follow the rules.

It's not that hard to go to the bugreports section and see for yourself that I bumped my bugreports, is it? I didn't mention them (linked them) because that's not the point.

I have a lot of minor open reports in there. They sit there until the time to polish a major release comes.
The editor issue is not important enough to delay the release

And I am sorry about your SIGBUS bug. I have no idea how I'd even try fixing that. I have never seen that happen. But my bugs are perfectly reproducable.

Reproducible for you on your hardware does not in any way imply reproducibility on any hardware in the 100m radius around the devs.

And I invested my money into a project that seemed worthy, that seemed to have some potential. Wouldn't you be sad if it was for nothing, or if it was unusable for you?

Yes, I know what you mean. "My" sigbus prevented me from starting the game in >90% of the cases. There were days when it didn't start. Just didn't.
It is sad, but when the issue lies deep in some 3rd-party library or is not reproducible on the dev's machine, it gets way harder to discover.

It's still not a reason to be angry at the devs, though.

btw: Did you provide a stack trace?

[ssilk]

I'm also software developer and I can say this is definitely a very well performing team and project. Must be said.

[Dr.Eddy]

First thing I'd like to say is I didn't want to be extra rude, just to be "rude enough to spawn a discussion".

There is nothing wrong with us. We test our releases however not as much as we would wanted. Yes, sometimes there are silly bugs in the experimental releases (like the pump can't be build, or map generator crashes immediately, etc.). However that is where the community here at the forums helps us a lot.

I understand the reasoning. But on the other hand, it is just sometimes hard to believe you did any testing at all. One of the bugs I'll report right now (I've just remembered it), the other bug is the map generator.

Some people care about the features. We could freeze the game as it is and do nothing but fixing bugs and improving speed. However the outcome of this would probably be that not many more people would be interested in Factorio.

Again, I understand. But the same goes with bugs. Bugged features aren't much features, are they? I still consider the map generator broken.

The current method for using forum threads for bug reports is not perfect. However there are positives to this approach as well. Your bug report simply got abandoned. In general if you have a serious bug and you see that nothing is happening bumping the thread now and then is a good idea.

Firstly, you can have some kind of bug tracking system running along with the forums. Bug tracker would serve as the main bug pool, and forums can be useful for discussion about those bugs. But anyway, you can have that comments in that bug tracker as well.

And secondly, I didn't consider bumping the threads useful, since the whole bug tracking subforum has only 3 pages and both of the bugs stayed at the first page for a long time. I sincerely thought they were being considered and/or worked upon.

Could you please be more constructive? The map generator in 0.5.1 works fine afaik. It generates reasonably looking maps with starting circle without enemies and with basic resources.

I didn't mention anything directly, since the bugs have already been discussed here: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=7&t=966

I have tried generating the map just a few times, but it seemed it ignores the values set and generates weird straight edges between terrains.

No one said your bug is not serious enough. Actually the bug in the map generator you have reported is very serious. It is just that it got burried in the bug forums. This can happen and bumping the thread would have helped.

Maybe I have foreseen it, but MF- says clearly just below your post my bug is not important. But whatever, that's not important. I'm glad it's fixed. Thanks again. BTW: one reason why I dislike bumping threads is that it's not very effective and just stupidly messes up the thread. Again, that's one of the reasons we have bug reporting web engines.

If you are disappointed with our approach and you think you haven't gotten the value you paid for then please send us an email and we will give you your money back.

I am disappointed with the game state as of now, but I still like the idea. I still believe in the potential. And I still want to play it. I don't want my money back. I'm just letting myself to be heard. That's why we have forums. Again, it was not meant to be too much aggressive, just aggressive enough, ok?

[slpwnd]

First thing I'd like to say is I didn't want to be extra rude, just to be "rude enough to spawn a discussion".

You certainly managed that:)

Firstly, you can have some kind of bug tracking system running along with the forums. Bug tracker would serve as the main bug pool, and forums can be useful for discussion about those bugs. But anyway, you can have that comments in that bug tracker as well.

Actually we have an internal issue tracker. It is running on our private github project therefore it can't be accessed by the public. We thought that making another bug tracker would complicate things. Yes the situation is not optimal, however like this even people without any experience with the bug tracker can participate in bugs discussions.

And secondly, I didn't consider bumping the threads useful, since the whole bug tracking subforum has only 3 pages and both of the bugs stayed at the first page for a long time. I sincerely thought they were being considered and/or worked upon.

I understand. Next time don't hesitate. The bug forum should be cleaned up a bit to distinguish old / obsolete / weird things from actual problems. Here some of the proper issue tracker features would be useful (like priority tag or something).

I didn't mention anything directly, since the bugs have already been discussed here: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=7&t=966

I have tried generating the map just a few times, but it seemed it ignores the values set and generates weird straight edges between terrains.

You are right with this one. The straight edges / the fish on the grass / etc. shouldn't happen when new map is generated. We will have a look into this one asap.

Since there has been multiple issues even after 0.5.1 there will be another bug fix release 0.5.2 in couple of days. This will solve the map editor segfaults, map generator issues and maybe the slowdowns for your factory on Linux (we are not sure what it is exactly yet however it is Linux specific and it is not the -ffast-math).

I am disappointed with the game state as of now, but I still like the idea. I still believe in the potential. And I still want to play it. I don't want my money back. I'm just letting myself to be heard. That's why we have forums. Again, it was not meant to be too much aggressive, just aggressive enough, ok?

I understand your disappointment from things that don't work as they are supposed to do. And you certainly got your way with "aggressive enough" post to be heard. On the other hand I think the same result could have been achieved with "not aggressive at all". The good outcome of this is that those couple of bugs will be fixed and we will get to test the auto updater for 0.5.2:)

Oh and by the way - that save is quite nice. I think you could use some of the automatic train transportation features there.

[Dr.Eddy]

You are right with this one. The straight edges / the fish on the grass / etc. shouldn't happen when new map is generated. We will have a look into this one asap.

Great, thank you!

Since there has been multiple issues even after 0.5.1 there will be another bug fix release 0.5.2 in couple of days. This will solve the map editor segfaults, map generator issues and maybe the slowdowns for your factory on Linux (we are not sure what it is exactly yet however it is Linux specific and it is not the -ffast-math).

To be honest, it surprises me anyone is developing on MS Windows. Please take no offence, just my opinion, but development, especially multiplatform development, seems to be somewhat easier and simpler on Linux (and friends). So I didn't even think none of you, the devs, is using Linux daily... But anyway, I'd be glad to help.

Oh and by the way - that save is quite nice. I think you could use some of the automatic train transportation features there.

Hey, thanks! I was looking forward to trains so much (I like OpenTTD a lot, so you can imagine how much), but the framerate is just unbearable...

[kovarex]

To be honest, it surprises me anyone is developing on MS Windows. Please take no offence, just my opinion, but development, especially multiplatform development, seems to be somewhat easier and simpler on Linux (and friends). So I didn't even think none of you, the devs, is using Linux daily... But anyway, I'd be glad to help.

I have been developing in linux 4 years in my previous job using emacs, (the job I had before I quit to do factorio), I was developing in windows before that, and I'm developing in windows now.

Although that there are some features of emacs I really miss in Visual studio, I believe, that there is no tool in linux that beats Visual studio with good configuration and set of plugins. (Talking especially about debugging, intellisense and refactoring capabilities)

[gr0mpel]

it would be nice if there was some kind of illumination in sandbox mode at night - except lamps.

when exploring new regions/ building in unlit areas..well..its just pitch dark and youre doomed to wait until the sun rises

[ssilk]

Torches?

[ficolas]

or maybe it not beeing 100% dark in godmode