The most useless thing in game.

[keyboardhack]

What about the nightvision goggles?
Only made them once and used them for 5 seconds before they were deemed unwearable and sentenced to a lonely life in a wooden chest.

[Koub]

The things I consider as useless (for my play style) :
Basic modular armor (always go for the MK1 directly)
personal solar panel

If you're short on alien artifacts, then your only choice is to use these. They're not useless in and of themselves, just situationally useful. The personal solar panels are a bit anemic, though. Boosting them to 20 W at least probably wouldn't hurt.

Iron chests

Resource efficiency. Steel chests use five times the materials for only fifty percent more capacity.

I'm always short on alien artifacts until at least MK1 : I play very very slowly, and even if I don't pollute much, evolution factor is usually around 0.7 when I go and collect my first artifacts. So getting enough of them is always always a pain in the ass. I have to cope with big worms and big biters with the car, poison capsules, regular shotgun, and a big load of repair packs (I didn't activate experimental releases).

As for ressource efficiency for iron chests, I did have the same reasoning before, but ... at the beginning, when it really counts, I don't need that much chests that are bigger than wood chests. And when I start needing them, the excess of needed ressource to make steel chests is negligible next to my factory's needs. And finally, I always end-up replacing my "beginner's" chests (wood or iron) with logistic chests, and I would find it a waste to have many iron chests I can't give a second life

[Martc]

What about the nightvision goggles?
Only made them once and used them for 5 seconds before they were deemed unwearable and sentenced to a lonely life in a wooden chest.

Yes, same with Personal laser defense. But I think this is balancing issue, because equipping more than one exoskeleton make no sense. And I am pretty sure that list of items will be expanded in later versions so maybe it is to early for this discussion.

[iklarazu]

The Burner Mining Drill. I build maybe 3 of the things before I get to electricity then they sit in storage forever.

But you use those....

Burner inserters however have no use at all.

Burner inserters.
I never used those yet. Not ever.

Burner inserters are undervalued, as they do not pollute. Further more, they always take priority in feeding themselves first, before boilers.

I prefer to avoid a solar field the size of Russia and instead stick with coal and/or solid fuel, as I feel solar is boring and easy. Have you ever had a total blackout from running out of coal? Or a brownout from your lasers over-taxing your steam engines? The hardest thing to do is to recover from a total loss of power. Laser turrets take priority on power, leaving all of your inserters extremely lethargic, thus your boilers will burn through the inserted coal before your inserter restocks the boiler, causing further issues.

I don't use them for anything else other than boiler-stuffing, but I feel they are perfect for such task.

The Burner Mining Drill. I build maybe 3 of the things before I get to electricity then they sit in storage forever.

I used nearly a dozen BMD's to get going. It really speeds up the game especialy when back to back mining coal.

Usually 6 on coal, 4 on iron, 2 on copper...and 1 on stone.

I agree they have limited use and it would be awesome if they could be used to build into something better, however they are essential to early building before electricity. Also, It's not a bad shout to leave a few of them on a stone patch and just feed them with logs, even mid game.

Most useless stuff is in the military section. I never use flamethrowers, landmines and discharge
defense. However I DO use the rocket launcher and grenades (against dense nests and trees) as
well as tanks.

Agree with this guy. However I don't use rocket launchers because 1) they're slow, 2) the range isn't much better than combat shotgun, which is super effective and 3) the damage is pretty meh. Tanks are still junk to me at this point, other than driving over those god damn fallen trees.

I fail to see the advantage/usefulness of Steel Furnaces.

Interesting! I could say the exact same thing about electric furnaces.

True, but at least you can put modules into electric furnaces. :p Definitely their main advantage.

If you're still using coal, steel furnaces are just as fast as electric, pre-modules/beacons. They're a legitimate middle step before electric, when you're using your red circuits for blue science packs. Though to be fair, I generally hold out for electric to save on steel, and my stone farm goes toward walls and rail.

What about the nightvision goggles?
Only made them once and used them for 5 seconds before they were deemed unwearable and sentenced to a lonely life in a wooden chest.

Yes, same with Personal laser defense. But I think this is balancing issue, because equipping more than one exoskeleton make no sense. And I am pretty sure that list of items will be expanded in later versions so maybe it is to early for this discussion.

NVG would probably serve a purpose for midnight raiding but honestly, I tend to wait for during the day before leaving my base, as I am extremely susceptible to driving into fell trees

Personal Laser Defence is good and bad; from what I can see, biters do not show resistance to laser, however, PLD does not scale with turret shooting speed/dmg from research, and you'd need like 5 of them to make it worth while.

I generally run with 2 fusion reactors, 2 exo skeles, and the rest of the space split between shields and batteries. More than 1 skeleton makes perfect sense: speed stacks, you can out-run biters with ease, makes cars/tanks pretty much obsolete except for very great distances. Laying down belts or rail with this speed is much faster and fun. The only draw back however is that you can't walk by hitting '/' on the numberpad like in MMOs, which makes picking up resources from 1 side of the belt near impossible.

Other than PLD, I would just agree with flamer and mines. Piercing Rounds (MG, not shotgun) are pretty much useless on medium and big bitters, and your car/tank/self will just chew through a whole stack of 100 with little result. Even the cannon on the tank could do with a bit of a buff. There's no indication how far you can shoot really. If it lands, bonus, but you can still shoot out of range and it'll just simply stop and explode.

[Nemoricus]

Burner inserters are undervalued, as they do not pollute.

Wait, what, really? Huh, they really don't...interesting. But are they a net gain when you take into account the electric mining drills and boilers? Even after accounting for the 50% effectivity of boilers, electric inserters use less than a tenth of the energy and so less than a fifth of the coal a burner inserter needs...

EDIT: After accounting for mining drills and boilers, burner inserters are still less polluting. 2/3s less than a basic inserter, which is interesting.

[iklarazu]

They don't have anything in the info panel when you hover over one to suggest they pollute, though boilers etc do.

If you were to test it, you'd have to seclude it somewhere and just leave a burner inserter emptying 1 box into another, but otherwise I'm just taking the info panel for genuine reference.

Also, BI only burn when they're moving, where as all inserters have like an idle power usage, they just peak at the quoted value when inserting.

The advantage for me personally is that that aren't affected by power outage. There has been times during multiplayer where we're out setting up an outpost and all the inserters go really slow, then stop. Lights go out. Biters start chewing through the walls. The rush then is to get back home to the steam engines and see what's going on. It's usually that our coal has ran out. In one play through it took a good 10 mins to get the power back up, as every time the engines kicked in, the lasers drained it all, and the inserters couldn't get coal in fast enough.

One of us had to go out and defend whilst I cut the power to whole base and the outposts until it was back up and running. For me, that's the fun and challenge right there. At that very point, we changed all yellow inserters back to burners and whilst we did have a similar situation several hours later, we got back up and running very quickly with a fresh supply of coal.

[Koub]

don't forget that burner inserters use up 1 coal for 13 moves, thus spoiling 7.7% of the coal the boilers are fed with. OK when you have millions of coal in your storage, it's little. But I don't like spoiling

[iklarazu]

This is where someone amazing at maths will swoop in and show which is best: BI only burning fuel during a move for 13 moves, vs the amount of fuel used for a yellow inserter for 13 moves, in addition to the power used whilst the inserter is idle between the 13.

Any takers? Not me!

I can see that 7.7% stacks up over prolonged use. You could quite easily (though would take a fair amount of space) fuel the burner inserters on their own separate source, say excess logs or solid fuel, but again for me this is about surviving loss of power. I can easily forget about keeping an eye on coal reserves at a new outpost when I'm obsessing over redesigning something or whatever!

Not sure if I'm going off topic here! I would have to disagree with BI being useless though. I've never crafted a landmine though, so unless landmines leave a ghost blueprint behind when destroyed, that construction droids can replace and I don't have to think about it, then I don't care. No thanks!

[FishSandwich]

This is where someone amazing at maths will swoop in and show which is best: BI only burning fuel during a move for 13 moves, vs the amount of fuel used for a yellow inserter for 13 moves, in addition to the power used whilst the inserter is idle between the 13.

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 850#p53523

[MeduSalem]

Actually I'm a strong supporter of Steam Power, because I just hate endless fields of Solar Panels & Accumulators. So my complete power-production basically depends on Solid Fuel to increase efficiency and because it's an infinite resource. Coal is my failsafe-backup if my Oil Industry can't keep up with the production.

It's usually that our coal has ran out. In one play through it took a good 10 mins to get the power back up, as every time the engines kicked in, the lasers drained it all, and the inserters couldn't get coal in fast enough.

Since I know the problems as stated above from experience I think I've come to an unique solution to that problem a while ago.

First I used regular inserters that are powered by the same grid as everything else, which is just doomsday when power goes down. It takes forever to get it back on because of how the energy distribution works.

Then I switched over to Burner Inserters, but they ate through the reserves quite fast anded add quite a lot of unnecessary overhead due how inefficient they work themselves, up to the point where I couldn't even feed my boilers with an express belt filled with Solid Fuel due to how much is lost from the stupid Burner Inserters.

Ever since that I switched back to regular inserters which are on their own power grid together with my oil industry (which runs on efficiency modules) and pumps/coal mines. It is powered by just a few stamps of Solar Panels/Accumulators which easily fit around a bunch of Substations. It's enough to gurantee that I'll always have enough energy to keep on producing Solid Fuel, transport and put it into the Boilers. Alternatively it will also ensure to get Coal I've accumulated in my Mass Storage if the Solid Fuel doesn't suffice.

I chose to take the hybrid-approach of using solar power to produce the energy needed to use steam power which then is used to power pretty much everything else like the factory, defenses or outposts. It's the most space efficient solution I have found that is resistant to failures.

I hope for 0.12, which will add some new features to fluid/power-handling and circuit logic, that it will be possible that eventually I'll be able to wire my Steam engines in a way that they will always prioritize to power themselves first in terms of Boiler Inserters/Solid Fuel production and only feed excess energy to the rest of the facility so I can get rid of the pesky Solar Power entirely. xD

[iklarazu]

This is where someone amazing at maths will swoop in and show which is best: BI only burning fuel during a move for 13 moves, vs the amount of fuel used for a yellow inserter for 13 moves, in addition to the power used whilst the inserter is idle between the 13.

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 850#p53523

Wow, nice find mate, and not posted all that long ago.

However, running with 0 solar panels, I can't still can't warrant using yellow inserters over burners, even if it is considerably less economical.

The only legitimate alternative I can see would be if I were to wire up the inserters to, for lack of better description, a private solar panel club, or block of accumulators that are in range to be charged but not consumed by the rest of the power grid, so that they'd still be activate whilst the rest of my base was in darkness.

[ssilk]

@MeduSalem: in my opinion the most effective is a mix of everything (this is valid only, if you're directly aiming to rocket defense):

I try to preproducing hot water.
I put some storage tanks at the end of my steam engines. About 20 steam engines in a row and then 2-20 tanks.
This enables in the pre solar panel phase a serious backup of energy (a full hot water tank stores 42 time more energy than the accumulator, https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... orage_tank ). You have much more time to react.

With solar panels the tanks can be filled during the day, which spares you a second cluster of steam engines.

The burner inserter is not so fine in that case, cause for effectivity, you use the full throughput of the water pipes/boilers, which means to burn a coal every 5 seconds or so. This is not the preferred usage! But (!) I try to use one burner inserter minimum at the end, this is some kind of insurance to bring the power back again, after a complete fail.

The ideal usage for burner inserters is in my eyes for refilling gun turrets. That is the usage, where they are really cheaper and effective and such a setup (a belt, one lane with coal, the other with magazines, burner inserters fill magazines into towers, sometimes take one coal) brings you far into the middle game, if you upgrade the towers. Even then they are not useless: they protect your inner factory with nearly no costs. The outside can then be protected with isles of laser turrets, not a complete wall, which is also quite expensive.

[Aardwolf]

I think the Personal Laser Defense is useful because it tells you visually and auditory that monsters are near before you notice them, especially at night.

Its damage is not super useful compared to my piercing combat shotgun though

[Cordylus]

I tried today the "discharge defense" for the first time.

Yes. It's completely useless stuff.

[Marconos]

I tried today the "discharge defense" for the first time.

Yes. It's completely useless stuff.

k .. how do you use the dang thing? I made one, put it in my armor and then made the other activation or whatever thing. I could never get it to fire???

[Cordylus]

You must be near the enemies to activate it. Simply click on the biter by the "discharge defense remote".
Here is more: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =18&t=3153

It emits only one beam of the blue laser like the destroyer capsule. Nothing more. Very bad item.

[The Phoenixian]

Wait only one beam? It's useless yeah but I thought the discharge defense shot out a single beam at every biter within range.


Also I'm sad that Landmines are so often on people's lists: As flawed as they are, they're still pretty awesome to use.

[Cordylus]

Wait only one beam? It's useless yeah but I thought the discharge defense shot out a single beam at every biter within range.


Also I'm sad that Landmines are so often on people's lists: As flawed as they are, they're still pretty awesome to use.

I tried it on the single biter, so I dont know.

Can someone try it? I'm out of the Factorio right now.

[iklarazu]

Actually I'm a strong supporter of Steam Power, because I just hate endless fields of Solar Panels & Accumulators. So my complete power-production basically depends on Solid Fuel to increase efficiency and because it's an infinite resource. Coal is my failsafe-backup if my Oil Industry can't keep up with the production.

It's usually that our coal has ran out. In one play through it took a good 10 mins to get the power back up, as every time the engines kicked in, the lasers drained it all, and the inserters couldn't get coal in fast enough.

Since I know the problems as stated above from experience I think I've come to an unique solution to that problem a while ago.

Ever since that I switched back to regular inserters which are on their own power grid

We have also banished burner inserters on the advice that it is super wasteful, and instead had a singular substation with the standard 16/12 SP/accumilator setup, which only powers boiler inserters, inserters that unloads the train, a few lights and (temporarily) a handful of turrets, after a recent invasion.

We've also stuffed a double efficiency module 2s into everything with a high value use (elec furnaces/microwaves, oil refineries, chem plants etc), for the -80% power consumption.

Also, I like having horizontal boilers, as it acts as a visual loading bar, so we can see the stress of the engines without clicking/hovering over anything.

[GlassDeviant]

Hard to say, one mans trash is another mans treasure as they say.

Grenades are useful for clearing forest, especially in the early game when the basic shotgun is a very slow alternative.

The exit button, well, some people use it...occasionally...I hear...

Fish are...well, I hear some people use them to recharge health faster, but I have finished the game compltely without even knowing you could fish fish or use them for anything.

Discharge Defense and Personal Laser Defense are pretty useless. Even with a smegload of them they are useless.

Wooden Crate is nearly useless, but less useless than Iron Crate, which can never be reused. Wooden Crates can be burned, and Steel Crates can be made into Smart Chests and then those into all forms of Logistic Chests.

Flamethrowers are pretty useless, and thus so is the fuel for them.

Rocket Launcher isn't useless but it's not all that useful either. I can use grenades do do the same things these do and more effectively, if at a bit shorter range. Eventually Combat Shotgun pretty much makes everything but Capsules obsolete. I love Destroyer Capsule yo-yoing.

I've never built a Burner Inserter that I can recall (except in the tutorial campaign where the script forces you to), so they are not indispensable but neither are they necessary.

Some people like Basic Beacons but I managed to get through an entire game without ever using any. I didn't need modules either except to make the Rocket Defense, but have been using them lately for Assembler 3's and Destroyer Capsules, as well as to reduce pollution and to get more out of depleted oil wells. I hear beacons are pretty good for those depleted oil wells but I haven't needed them yet.

>iklarazu> Why use batteries in your power armor when you already have fusion reactors? Batteries can be depleted, whereas Power Armor 2 with 3 PFRs, 2 exoskeletons and 5 Shield Mk.2 (or 4 exos and 4 Shield Mk.2) will never become depleted of energy, thus you will never experience speed reduction due to your shield recharge taking power from your exoskeletons.