Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

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TheRailmaker
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Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by TheRailmaker »

There is a mod called "wire shortcuts" it ads shortcuts for red and green wire.

Why isnt it in the basegame ? I can't see any downside, and crafting them is inconsistent and unintuitive for new players considering you get them for free if you copy settings.

Its just pure QoL, without changing much balancewise.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

There’s also a mod Get wires back, which allows you to get your wires back from mining and deconstruction, but likewise makes it so blueprinting no longer gives them to you for free.

Either way is user personal preference at this point. I prefer the one I just mentioned vs having them removed and made shortcuts.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by Qon »

TheRailmaker wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:38 pm
There is a mod called "wire shortcuts" it ads shortcuts for red and green wire.

Why isnt it in the basegame ? I can't see any downside, and crafting them is inconsistent and unintuitive for new players considering you get them for free if you copy settings.

Its just pure QoL, without changing much balancewise.
I love that mod! Why it isn't vanilla is beyond me. Wires should have been made tools+hotkeys+shortcuts at the same time blueprints did. Blueprints and combinators are the most interesting parts of the game, but combinators don't get the same amount of love as the rest of the game from the devs :(
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:49 pm
There’s also a mod Get wires back, which allows you to get your wires back from mining and deconstruction, but likewise makes it so blueprinting no longer gives them to you for free.
That sounds worse than vanilla D:
That will make the required construction bots multiply by several times for circuit heavy blueprints.

The wires are not a cost in materials. They are so cheap, why would you want them back!!?
I don't want them back. The energy and time and UPS cost of having bots deconstruct wires and bring them back to me is so bad I would gladly pay multiple wires to tell a bot to not bring the wires back! The construction job queue is a fixed world resource (10 ghosts per tick or something), making bots require several trips for a single entity makes large scale construction less feasible. It's like taking the car for a 100 mile trip to buy a bottle of water when you have a tap of infinite fresh and clean water at home.

I was hoping for bots to be able to use their carrying capacity to place several entities in a single trip, like logistics bots. And you want the opposite, requiring multiple bots to deconstruct a single entity! That's highly offensive.

Maybe you haven't built anything large or you don't use circuit wires that much. If so then the mod is just a stylistic choice for you and it doesn't impact your gameplay at all really.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Qon wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:23 pm
That sounds worse than vanilla D:
That will make the required construction bots multiply by several times for circuit heavy blueprints.
:lol: Yeah, I figured that mindset wouldn’t be for everyone. :P I mean, I have a personal mod that makes trains (almost) realistically slow and heavy (scaled), and another I’m working on will prevent you from placing concrete (and the like) where trees, resources, or enemy spawners/worms are (and prevent placing them on concrete, though the spawners and worms are actually a chance to fail vs outright denied for some level of balance). :)

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by Qon »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:30 pm
:lol: Yeah, I figured that mindset wouldn’t be for everyone. :P I mean, I have a personal mod that makes trains (almost) realistically slow and heavy (scaled), and another I’m working on will prevent you from placing concrete (and the like) where trees, resources, or enemy spawners/worms are (and prevent placing them on concrete, though the spawners and worms are actually a chance to fail vs outright denied for some level of balance). :)
It's fine as a mod if that's how you want to play it. But definitely not an improvement for vanilla. Slow trains sounds like a fun thing to try, as a "challenge" or to have something that makes me design differently. But I wouldn't want it as a vanilla feature, challenge mods should stay as mods, that is what mods are for. QoL mods are made to improve vanilla and implement features faster than vanilla can, a good QoL mod in the spirit of Factorio is fine to make a vanilla feature.

"Get wires back" sounds like the primary purpose of the mod is "fixing" that wiring requires wires but deconstructing doesn't give them back. So it's pretending to be a "buff" or QoL if you are wiring and unwiring, to make it easier when playing with combinators which are clumsy. And that is how you presented the mod as well, posting it in this thread about improving the vanilla combinator experience.
But the mod is mostly made up of nerfs that make combinators more tedious to work with, and those are almost nefariously hidden with that kind of mod name. It's not a QoL mod at all, it's more like a challenge mod, more similar to the challenge mods you present now like slow trains.

I'm considering making a mod that flips the logistics progression upside down. Logistics bots are heavily nerfed and cheaper and unlocked with red science, for early low volume logistics. Belts are yellow/purple science and are buffed and made more expensive, so that they become the highest throughput endgame logistics system. Trains are in the middle with lower acceleration but higher top speed to make them worse at short range but better at long range. And maybe make burner inserters end game tech as well with extreme speed. And maybe make nuclear power be the first power source, nerfed and cheaper. The point is to make the game different. I would be mad if I made that mod and people that liked the mod then tried to get Wube to balance the game like that mod then. Do you see my point?

Anyways, keep enjoying the mods you use!

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Qon wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:31 am
Anyways, keep enjoying the mods you use!
And you as well!

(That was kind of my point from the start....)

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by ssilk »

Back to topic.
TheRailmaker wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:38 pm
There is a mod called "wire shortcuts" it ads shortcuts for red and green wire.

Why isnt it in the basegame ? I can't see any downside, and crafting them is inconsistent and unintuitive for new players considering you get them for free if you copy settings.

Its just pure QoL, without changing much balancewise.
That’s my man! :D I said that since years! And I can prove it: search.php?keywords=%E2%80%9CWireshortc ... mit=Search
And many other time, too.

There is no other logical solution. I don’t know why wube didn’t change the wires when they changed the whole wire-behavior (in 0.16/0.17?) with not getting them back. It makes no sense. 8-)
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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by TheRailmaker »

ssilk wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:29 am

That’s my man! :D I said that since years! And I can prove it: search.php?keywords=%E2%80%9CWireshortc ... mit=Search
And many other time, too.

There is no other logical solution. I don’t know why wube didn’t change the wires when they changed the whole wire-behavior (in 0.16/0.17?) with not getting them back. It makes no sense. 8-)
Okay...you have like 13k posts, made 8posts about this topic and are here for ~ 10 years. im just new. Guess this forum is no place for much change, even if someone presents argumentably a better solution. gl with that, but im out.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by lyvgbfh »

TheRailmaker wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:32 am
Okay...you have like 13k posts, made 8posts about this topic and are here for ~ 10 years. im just new. Guess this forum is no place for much change, even if someone presents argumentably a better solution. gl with that, but im out.
I think you may be misreading, he's saying he agrees with you that it would be a good solution. Personally, I agree - the "cost" of wires is more of a nuisance than a feature especially when they're free in blueprints.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by ssilk »

TheRailmaker wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:32 am
ssilk wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:29 am

That’s my man! :D I said that since years! And I can prove it: search.php?keywords=%E2%80%9CWireshortc ... mit=Search
And many other time, too.

There is no other logical solution. I don’t know why wube didn’t change the wires when they changed the whole wire-behavior (in 0.16/0.17?) with not getting them back. It makes no sense. 8-)
Okay...you have like 13k posts, made 8posts about this topic and are here for ~ 10 years. im just new. Guess this forum is no place for much change, even if someone presents argumentably a better solution. gl with that, but im out.
Was my post so misunderstandable?
:?

P.S.: In this case we are both the same opinion. :P But it should not matter how long someone is in this forum, or how many posts he/she made. If something is right or wrong for you, you can argue with us, no matter what subject.
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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by Koub »

I so much agree on this. I'm sure I have advocated for this some time in the past too. The way the wires are implemented now is clunky.
One needs to craft them to be able to use them.
But they can't be harvested back when deconstructing.
But they are free if built from a blueprint.
And on a special note for the copper wire, which is basically free all the time, except when explicitly wanting to wire manually something.

I hoped this would disappear at the same time the pickaxe was removed to become a buff based mechanism, but unfortunately the devs chose another path. Still hoping though :).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Should "Wire Shortcuts" be in the Base game ?

Post by lyvgbfh »

Koub wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:38 am
And on a special note for the copper wire, which is basically free all the time, except when explicitly wanting to wire manually something.
Copper cable is a weird one, since it's also widely used in recipes. If I "cleanup" my inventory by throwing out intermediates, it should by all rights go with but it's also a utility item that has purpose staying in my inventory...

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