No, but shouldn't they at least be an answer to some problems? As I see it the vanilla game has the right tech tree for beginners but not for experienced players. It can't be the other way around, obviously. IF mods are the answer, it MUST be the answer for experienced/advanced players. Wube could add an (hidden?) option as a shortcut if the demand is really high to warant this, but the vanilla game has to keep the beginners behind the "security tape".Tricorius wrote: But I don’t think “just use mods” is the best answer to everything.
I didn't say the bots are a "cop out" design, with "cop out" design I was refering to the specific design Hedning1390 was showing. Unlike the train supply design it is a VERY obvious method. As soon as requester chests are available I would guess a very high percentage of beginners immediately would get the idea. Using train wagons to supply assemblers easily is something I for example didn't see at all. Someone had to tell me.I also disagree that bots are a “cop out” design. They have their own trade offs to use well. Anyone who has spent a reasonable amount of time with them understands that. Perhaps bots should be made more interesting to use, not just more punitively difficult to use.
My first playthrough I did a spaghetti design. In further playthroughs I experimented with vertical sets of belts, belts that transport the basic materials in a big circle and a manhattan design. NONE of them ever were problem-free, all needed adaptions and redesigns to supply intermediate products, redesigns because supply wasn't enough. All kept me occupied tinkering and balancing.Honestly, I don’t see that much fundamental difference in setting up an early “mall” with logistics bots vs a set of five vertical belts. Other than style or preference. Why is a huge vertical parallel line more interesting or prettier than nicely laid out rows of assemblers and chests? Is striping five rows of belts endlessly upward a feat that Michelangelo would commend, while scoffing at the dude using robots? (Well, maybe he would...I never knew him.)
That simply doesn't happen if you build the "cop out" design of Hedning1390. A beginner might never experience the fascination of tinkering or transitioning into building mega factories, never see the interesting problems Factorio offers for the advanced player if he sees the solution to the mid-game immediately before him. Imagine playing factorio as a beginner and shortly after setting up your first research stations you just have to wait for for any new tech and except for combatting the aliens and adding new mining fields there is nothing much to do. If a new tech becomes available, you just put down 1-4 assemblers plus two chests and inserters and you are done. Factorio doens't work if you don't have anything to do, but a beginner isn't able to set his own goals yet.
Probably there are some people around with that attitude, who knows. I'm simply saying the devs have (in my opinion) a reason for not giving the beginner requester chests right away for a very similar reason to why they don't make 10-lane belts, every inserter a filter inserter or belts that directly feed into assemblers. And it is the same reason why any RPG game doesn't give you the Sword of Ultimate Destruction at level 1.Again, I simply don’t get the fundamental mindset of “the way you want to do it is bad, so no one should do it that way”. (Also, I’m not saying this is the attitude of the devs, if that were, they’d remove the bots altogether and “damn the torpedos”.)