Active Provider Chests?

[Syrchalis]

So, in the last days I've played a lot of late-game saves and used the logistics network, blueprints etc. a lot.

However, I haven't found any use for active provider chests. I know how they work, I can imagine them being useful for things like trainstations where you want the chests to be emptied into storage so new items can be moved in, but has anyone done something crazy like use ONLY active provider chests and centralize all storage of items?

What do you use active provider chests for?

[greep]

There's a few uses I can't remember atm, but one big one is a hack to let your logistic bots handle storage box moving. Normally if you deconstruct a storage area holding millions of ore, you'll have to wait either wait hours for your construction bots to handle it or make a few thousand of them. However, if you replace the storage boxes with active provider chests, the logistic bots will move them to the new storage area, and then you can deconstruct the emptied boxes with con bots.

[Syrchalis]

There's a few uses I can't remember atm, but one big one is a hack to let your logistic bots handle storage box moving. Normally if you deconstruct a storage area holding millions of ore, you'll have to wait either wait hours for your construction bots to handle it or make a few thousand of them. However, if you replace the storage boxes with active provider chests, the logistic bots will move them to the new storage area, and then you can deconstruct the emptied boxes with con bots.

Good usage, but very niche I guess. I just want to like and use these like a good tool, but so far I haven't really been able to.

Did anyone try a centralized logistics network? With active provider chests in places where you would usually put passive ones?

[stm]

In general use them in positions where you never want your chests to fill up. E.G. because you do not want that production to stop. I used it for certain ore fields inside my base for example.
Or use them at your train station to not store anything inside the chests you want to unload your train to...
I don't use them that regularly, but I had a few of them in my last base. Just think about whether you want to use your provider chest as storage for that item (In that case use a passive one) or as a gateway to your network (since you don't want it to block you want to use an active one).
Otherwise you could also use storrage chests instead (When you do not use active provider chests I don't think they will be filled up with anything automatically so the should not be blocked by other stuff).
So In my opinion they are a very usefull tool for controlling your item flow, even though they are not strictly necessary (But the same holds true for e.g. trains, or Bots in general, or many other thiongs in factorio).
Stm

[greep]

Ah yeah I remember one other use I had. Most items I make are filter inserter limited to only pull out of the assembler if their item < X amount. However, green circuits and gears in particular are used basically everywhere, so accidentally overbuilding isn't a concern to me as I expand, and they're created at ridiculous speeds that fill up a chest quickly. So I don't both with a filter and just pull out always into active provider chests to go straight to a very close storage.

[TI-89]

I have used them for caching off my sorting system. Can hold a few million ore buffer, in a dedicated logistics network. I also use them to move things like raw wood out of one network. And into another one that will eventually put it on a train to bring back to main sorting.
And the really interesting thing you can do with them is automatically distribute bots throughout a network (or between several). Just think of bots as fluid. There is a high inflow of bots to delivery areas. By putting a roboport that's emptied into an active provider you create a drain. The idea here is to make sure bots never fly empty by having bots bring the bots to where they need to go. Stack bonus makes this incredibly powerful, and lets you create long distance high throughout, high latency networks.

[Syrchalis]

In general use them in positions where you never want your chests to fill up. E.G. because you do not want that production to stop. I used it for certain ore fields inside my base for example.
Or use them at your train station to not store anything inside the chests you want to unload your train to...
I don't use them that regularly, but I had a few of them in my last base. Just think about whether you want to use your provider chest as storage for that item (In that case use a passive one) or as a gateway to your network (since you don't want it to block you want to use an active one).
Otherwise you could also use storrage chests instead (When you do not use active provider chests I don't think they will be filled up with anything automatically so the should not be blocked by other stuff).
So In my opinion they are a very usefull tool for controlling your item flow, even though they are not strictly necessary (But the same holds true for e.g. trains, or Bots in general, or many other thiongs in factorio).
Stm

Well, storage chests fill up semi-automatically when you deconstruct things or use your trash slots or auto-trash slots. Sure you can avoid those really easily, but I wouldn't use storage chests in production. For me they are really only for one central storage area (or multiple if I ever have that). I also believe that storage chests have other priorities. If a requester chest asks for an item it goes active provider > storage > passive provider as far as I know.
"A requested item is first looked up in the active provider chests, then in the storage chests, then the passive provider chests. So, the active provider chests are emptied first, then the storage chests, then the passive provider chests." (Factorio Wiki)
So yeah, maybe that gives the whole thing a use or two maybe.

Ah yeah I remember one other use I had. Most items I make are filter inserter limited to only pull out of the assembler if their item < X amount. However, green circuits and gears in particular are used basically everywhere, so accidentally overbuilding isn't a concern to me as I expand, and they're created at ridiculous speeds that fill up a chest quickly. So I don't both with a filter and just pull out always into active provider chests to go straight to a very close storage.

You mean circuit conditions right (not filter inserter)? Anyway - how do you prevent your storage from overfilling? Especially since they are produced so fast - or do you just tend to have so many storage chests that it doesn't matter? I personally tend to use belts for items that are produced in huge amounts (iron, copper, steel, green circuits).

I guess it's a bit weird that I want them to be useful. I just like everything to have it's intended place as a designer. My favorite are things like splitters and underground belts:
Underground belts do many things - you can make half-belts with them, you can split merged belts of two different items with them, belt weave, supply in crowded areas and in general avoid obstacles. That's why I like them.
Splitters just do two things, but they do them really well - merge/split belts and help balance belts (they don't do it on their own)

To take a more related example - passive provider chests have one big use and they do this really well - decentralized storage. Put them as buffer in production chains or as storage at the end of a chain and your logistics network can use those items without the need for a huge storage or anything else really.

Active provider chests don't need to be a commonly used super amazing thing for me, I just want them to feel better than this "yeah it can do this, but it's not really useful".

Take crude oil barrels for example. They have very limited use too, but they do have a use and when it comes to that they do that so well that other methods become inferior. Same as trains. If the distance is long enough they do their job pretty well (plus you can afk travel with them). As the upcoming tanker wagon shows, the barrels aren't the best way to do it, but they still feel "there for a reason".

What bugs me is that the active provider chests feel like they were implemented for a reason but I just can't find that reason. The only thing that comes close are train unloading stations if you want a robot-based factory - but that's just so niche... .

I have used them for caching off my sorting system. Can hold a few million ore buffer, in a dedicated logistics network. I also use them to move things like raw wood out of one network. And into another one that will eventually put it on a train to bring back to main sorting.
And the really interesting thing you can do with them is automatically distribute bots throughout a network (or between several). Just think of bots as fluid. There is a high inflow of bots to delivery areas. By putting a roboport that's emptied into an active provider you create a drain. The idea here is to make sure bots never fly empty by having bots bring the bots to where they need to go. Stack bonus makes this incredibly powerful, and lets you create long distance high throughout, high latency networks.

Hm, that sure is an interesting use, definitely. Kind of a "put the active chest down, put bots in and let them spread, then pick it up again" thing, so you just need 1 of these chests really, but yeah, at least it's a use. Couldn't you do the same with a normal chest and having bots deconstruct it though?

[Zappes]

Actually my prime use for the active providers is closely related to the crude oil barrels. The belt that carries empty barrels from my pumping station to the train station from which they are redistributed to the oil fields contains an "overflow valve" that empties into some active providers. That makes sure that the barrel return belt never clogs up, which would stall the pumps.

[Deadly-Bagel]

My last vanilla game I had a pretty big factory. I don't mean like a megabase or anything but I was producing -everything- in a linear bus with end products being handled by logistics. It probably spanned some 500 tiles, and the trains and gates (where I would enter the base) were at the top.

Therefore I had all products being dropped into Active Provider Chests where bots would then take them to storage at the top of the base. This ensured the Logistic Bots resided at the top so when I entered it was a very short trip for them to grab whatever I needed from the chests and put them in my inventory. If I had used passive providers instead, the robots would still reside at the top of the base (where they docked after last supplying me). When I re-entered, they would need to travel up to 500 tiles down my factory, pick up the item(s), then travel all the way back up. In some cases (requesting 2,000 belts, 400 miners, 1,000 walls, 200 laser turrets AND 2,000 rails for example) would have taken minutes instead of seconds.

There's a ton of higher level usages but that's the most basic and impactful.

[Syrchalis]

My last vanilla game I had a pretty big factory. I don't mean like a megabase or anything but I was producing -everything- in a linear bus with end products being handled by logistics. It probably spanned some 500 tiles, and the trains and gates (where I would enter the base) were at the top.

Therefore I had all products being dropped into Active Provider Chests where bots would then take them to storage at the top of the base. This ensured the Logistic Bots resided at the top so when I entered it was a very short trip for them to grab whatever I needed from the chests and put them in my inventory. If I had used passive providers instead, the robots would still reside at the top of the base (where they docked after last supplying me). When I re-entered, they would need to travel up to 500 tiles down my factory, pick up the item(s), then travel all the way back up. In some cases (requesting 2,000 belts, 400 miners, 1,000 walls, 200 laser turrets AND 2,000 rails for example) would have taken minutes instead of seconds.

There's a ton of higher level usages but that's the most basic and impactful.

Yeah, that sounds good. I guess if you have a large base (large as in not producing a lot but in size) so that the items are generally in a better position.

[greep]

What bugs me is that the active provider chests feel like they were implemented for a reason but I just can't find that reason. The only thing that comes close are train unloading stations if you want a robot-based factory - but that's just so niche... .

Well, I think that does justify their existence, though. If you had nothing but passive providers, requesters, and storage, you'd have a difficult time pulling from mega stations with maxed inserters. Plus the few other random uses and together it seems worth it. I'd worry more about things that are completely worthless like efficiency 3 modules.

[TI-89]

If you have a one time situation, like getting resupplied by bots far from where you want bots to be, you can just place a chest. But I'm talking about continuous active management of robot availability. In smaller networks this can be used for precise control of the number of bots, which can also scale in response to increased demand. In larger networks things are much less precise. But basically it's the same logic as any active provider use: I always want this chest to be empty = I always want room to dock at this roboport. Circuits can be used for complex control, but as its currently not possible to read the contents of a particular roboport, control is limited to emptying, and filling. Can say 'keep this port full' but not 'keep 10 robots at this port'. I've experimented a bit, but the performance depends on a lot of factors, so it's kinda just a matter of adjusting until it works as you want.

[Killcreek2]

I find active providers very useful for a variety of situations:

• Train unloading depot [had to start with most obvious].
• Moving partial repair packs from roboports back into the logistics network.
• Automatic Shop [see below].
• Wherever there is a big distance from item producer to typical consumer[s].
• "Roboport Relay" setups between isolated [1 tile gap] logi networks.
• Anywhere else you need to prevent that chest filling up completely.

Here is a screenshot of my Automagic Shoppe ~ end products and some intermediaries are deposited via active providers into the central storage areas for quick access to the player and the automatic wall defence resupply train [red train pictured].
Note there is a single active provider chest right at the bottom of the first picture where explosives enter the Shoppe.

Some intermediaries are left in passive chests instead, such as copper wire & iron sticks, as they are used nearby and do not need to be moved into the main storage at all [and if some do end up in storage, those get used up first anyway]. See close up screenshot.
Stock levels are controlled by a simple [no combinator] circuit network connecting one of the roboports to each output inserter [see 2nd pic for configuration ^].

I have a Robopot Relay setup for my walls so here is a bonus example pic with the active provider highlighted.

TL;DR Active providers are very useful.

[TI-89]

Hey that's pretty similar to what I do. This works well in a small network, and I've been meaning to actually implement something like this, but distribution is really difficult (if not impossible) in a larger one. Your system is much further along design wise than mine though, I'm still on some ugly ass prototypes. I've mostly been messing around with trying to balance logibutts without having to put an active provider on every port in the network. It's not simple, but I enjoy trying to reason about the way they move around. Here's my bonus pic, http://imgur.com/CDb8PgX.
I actually just added that chest, set to request 100 bots if there are more than 100 in storage and place in an active provider. This network is for a rather long wall, and I'd like it to be able to increase bots to respond to a large attack. But 5k is an absurd number. I may have to tweak the logic a bit to get it to perform well, but essentially bot balancing is a flow problem. This creates outflow whenever excess bots end up in storage.

[Syrchalis]

Thanks for the responses so far, maybe I will be able to utilize them now.

[impetus maximus]

My last vanilla game I had a pretty big factory. I don't mean like a megabase or anything but I was producing -everything- in a linear bus with end products being handled by logistics. It probably spanned some 500 tiles, and the trains and gates (where I would enter the base) were at the top.

Therefore I had all products being dropped into Active Provider Chests where bots would then take them to storage at the top of the base. This ensured the Logistic Bots resided at the top so when I entered it was a very short trip for them to grab whatever I needed from the chests and put them in my inventory. If I had used passive providers instead, the robots would still reside at the top of the base (where they docked after last supplying me). When I re-entered, they would need to travel up to 500 tiles down my factory, pick up the item(s), then travel all the way back up. In some cases (requesting 2,000 belts, 400 miners, 1,000 walls, 200 laser turrets AND 2,000 rails for example) would have taken minutes instead of seconds.

There's a ton of higher level usages but that's the most basic and impactful.

very clever. i assume you set limits on production via circuit network?

[Hannu]

Active providers are more useful in modded game to handle side products, like empty barrels. But they are always very practical as trashcans. I put active providers near the entries and my work train platform so that I can empty surplus and waste stuff from my inventory when I come in. Robots organize them correctly when I go to make something else. Active providers are also practical help if I have to move full chest. I replace the chest and bots take all stuff into storage.