[0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Things that has been reported already before.
scarhoof
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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by scarhoof » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:34 pm

@orzelek

For me it's the look of the world. Right now it's a hodgepodge mess of tiny biomes all crammed into each continent. You used to be able to use the Terrain Segmentation to make really large desert or Forest biomes, now, no matter the settings, your factory is going to spawn multiple biomes. It looks ugly and it lacks the unique customization we could have with .12.

Personally I don't care about starting resources, we have endless seeds, keep generating till you get a good start, or challenging start, whatever you're looking for.

Same with the little water pools scattered around. We have landfill for that.

But re-rolling till you get a good biome generation is impossible now. It might be as simple as a new slider for "Biome Diversity" separated from "Terrain Segmentation"

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by ytsejam » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:23 pm

orzelek wrote:Tbh I still don't understand why for some this is a game breaking bug :)
For small lakes there is landfill now so they are covered.

Most problematic thing I can see is that you can start with no basic resources near starting area.
Yes, I'm pretty sure resource generation is bugged as well, and needs to be fixed, but it doesn't bother me as much as the terrain. I like having actual biomes, not this mess of forest/desert we have now.

That's not the game breaking bug for me though. I can live with that until they fix it. What I can't stand is the annoying small ponds everywhere. I don't think the point of landfill is to use it to fix a bugged terrain. Right now I need a landfill production just for that, that's no fun.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by Jj250 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:58 pm

orzelek wrote:Tbh I still don't understand why for some this is a game breaking bug :)
For small lakes there is landfill now so they are covered.

Most problematic thing I can see is that you can start with no basic resources near starting area.
Basically the small biomes are unrealistic/not aesthetically pleasing. I want trains to cross desserts, plains, dense forests, boarder lakes and oceans. I want a map that is widely varied over a wide area. Not widely varied over a single chunk. Having a spattering of desserts inbetween forests and green plains is just not good on the eyes. The "feel" is off.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by Jj250 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:53 pm

Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.

Terrain Generation is definitely messed up in a few ways and I'm not sure how the devs can't replicate these problems.

I'm using vanilla Factorio, and any .13 is messed up even when .12 works fine for terrain generation.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by IronCartographer » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:14 pm

Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by Jj250 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:00 am

IronCartographer wrote:
Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.
That makes a whole lot more sense!

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by ixnorp » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:18 pm

IronCartographer wrote:
Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.
I don't agree with this. The default map generator shouldn't present options to the user which allows them to shoot themselves in the foot. If a mod wants to allow someone to entirely disable iron on their map then sure, but why would the Vanilla game ever want this? The scenario generator might want this, I suppose, but a free play map would simply be impossible to complete and I can't see a reason why this is desirable behavior.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by MrGrim » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:28 pm

ixnorp wrote:
IronCartographer wrote:
Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.
I don't agree with this. The default map generator shouldn't present options to the user which allows them to shoot themselves in the foot. If a mod wants to allow someone to entirely disable iron on their map then sure, but why would the Vanilla game ever want this? The scenario generator might want this, I suppose, but a free play map would simply be impossible to complete and I can't see a reason why this is desirable behavior.
I give you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KSIH4dJg8

Let people play how they will. :)

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by ixnorp » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:32 am

MrGrim wrote:
ixnorp wrote:
IronCartographer wrote:
Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.
I don't agree with this. The default map generator shouldn't present options to the user which allows them to shoot themselves in the foot. If a mod wants to allow someone to entirely disable iron on their map then sure, but why would the Vanilla game ever want this? The scenario generator might want this, I suppose, but a free play map would simply be impossible to complete and I can't see a reason why this is desirable behavior.
I give you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KSIH4dJg8

Let people play how they will. :)
You can theoretically play that map though. Maybe not that particular seed, but those settings. You can't play a map with out Iron. You have a good point though. While I still think it's an important part of design to keep the user from shooting themselves in the foot as much as possible (with out being too obtrusive and obnoxious about it), it's probably a worse idea to take away options that are already there.

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by IronCartographer » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:02 pm

ixnorp wrote:
MrGrim wrote:
ixnorp wrote:
IronCartographer wrote:
Jj250 wrote:Another thing i've noticed is if I set enemy spawns to low or very low everything, but starting area to "none" it's as if the biter settings got turned to very high.
That sounds reasonable because if you don't have a starting area there's no ramp of difficulty. It's more of a mod option, like the other things you can set to None: The raw resources. :lol:

Not every configuration in the mapgen screen is meant to be played.
I don't agree with this. The default map generator shouldn't present options to the user which allows them to shoot themselves in the foot. If a mod wants to allow someone to entirely disable iron on their map then sure, but why would the Vanilla game ever want this? The scenario generator might want this, I suppose, but a free play map would simply be impossible to complete and I can't see a reason why this is desirable behavior.
I give you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KSIH4dJg8

Let people play how they will. :)
You can theoretically play that map though. Maybe not that particular seed, but those settings. You can't play a map with out Iron. You have a good point though. While I still think it's an important part of design to keep the user from shooting themselves in the foot as much as possible (with out being too obtrusive and obnoxious about it), it's probably a worse idea to take away options that are already there.
Indeed. We need more moddability of the map generation screen, not fewer options. :)

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Re: [0.13.0] Terrain segmentation

Post by Jürgen Erhard » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:49 pm

Jj250 wrote: I'm not sure how the devs can't replicate these problems.
This here would be the very first game I've ever played where the dev version were actually identical to the release version.

IOW, I'm certain they do not actually play our version. Or maybe the game detects dev tools present and behaves slightly differently, and the devs forgot about it... ;-P

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