Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

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jcranmer
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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by jcranmer »

Merssedes wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:40 pm
"class std::basic_string,class std::allocator >"
I think there is missing some escaping...
Probably std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char>>

Perhaps somewhat sad that I know this off the top of my head...

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by ManaUser »

Tangentially related: I don't usually pay much attention to Steam, but I happened to look at Factorio's page there and I noticed you've got some outdated info about what 1.0 will look like in the "Why Early Access?" section.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by EnerJi »

I, for one, would totally understand if you shifted your attention post-1.0 to paid DLC, a Factorio sequel, or even a brand new game.

That said, I DO still hope that you can squeeze in some improvements to the Blueprints GUI before 100% of your attention shifts to your next project.

Hiladdar
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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Hiladdar »

A few comments regarding the 1.0 and moving the date up.

First, there will always be some game released at some time. I think there may be some who will play both Cyberpunk and Factorio at the same time, but the games are different enough that it should not be an issue. Making sure there is enough media bandwidth to market the game is a valid concern. More-so if the game is ready it does make sense to move the date up.

Regarding changes that were removed from 1.0, or defered.

- UI changes: Either put them into 1.0 or consolidate them and defer them to the next major release. Putting those in as patches, or DLC's will give some players and reviews the appearance that the game was released incomplete.

- Fluid mechanics: Fluids work right now. Major risk releasing fluids post 1.0, especially if it breaks something. Beyond that, fluid upgrades can fairly easily be done as a patch. I recommend a lot of testing of fluid mechanics prior to releasing them post 1.0

- Campaign: This is something that can be resurrected as a marketing tool. One or two scenarios can be released only if someone purchases the game within the first month. Some scenarios can be released as a Christmas or New Year's gift. One other option is to have 12 - 24 scenarios, with a new one released once every 2-3 weeks, until version 1.0 or the first major DLC is released. The campaign itself can be a DLC.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by kpreid »

Regarding wiki linking, a suggestion: instead of downloading a lookup table, generate URLs systematically based on the type name — then add redirects to the wiki to map the systematic possibly-ugly names to the usual page names. That way there's less code in the game, it never has to download anything, and the redirects can be updated by wiki editors in a familiar fashion, rather than there being a special table.

For example, given the case in your screenshot, you could generate a link to "Types/FluidBoxPrototype" and the wiki page "Types/FluidBoxPrototype" would be a redirect to the regular "Types/FluidBox" page. Or, if it seems tidier, the systematic names could be separate, like "InternalTypes/FluidBoxPrototype".
Last edited by kpreid on Fri May 29, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by bobucles »

This These values also includes some optimizations implemented by Rseding.
You're going to kill the proofreading team at this rate! :lol:

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Kladdey »

If you guys decide to release DLCs - think of adding something like a season pass, I'd get it like right away

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by raneo »

Locale:

Although I understand, that you want to deliver an overall polished/great product with 1.0 I am concerned you're investing too much resources into the translations!
I am a dude from germany, tried the german translation once and rolled back to the english original a few hours later. For me it feels awkward to play Factorio in another language than english because
1. I am used to the item/entity names in english language and sometimes struggled finding the stuff that I was after (with german language enabled)
2. I often play with mods - while some do have locale files, others have none
3. if I need to look something up in the wiki or stumble across some questions regarding trains/signals or basically everything which I googled ever since ... I found way more resources/tips/blueprints/guides in english language (general tendency throughout the internet)

With that in mind I would like to ask the following:
Do you have stats of how many people opt-in the offered translations and kept their choice?

Regards

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by FasterJump »

Hype for a new updated trailer!

The current trailer is amazing, even with old graphics. It looks row, mechanical. We can feel the brute force of logistic and automation. Do you plan to change it entirety? If it's too polished (like with too smooth camera moves, or map too big), it might not be as good. But I guess you guys know what you're doing. "Don't fix what is not broken"...
Bottom line, I'm expecting 75% of the previous trailer with just new graphics, and 25% new (nuclear...).

Anso, happy to hear that fluid mechanics will arrive later.

Anyway, good job for approaching the release!

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Alice3173 »

Hiladdar wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:55 pm
I think there may be some who will play both Cyberpunk and Factorio at the same time, but the games are different enough that it should not be an issue.
This is some really strange logic to me. You seem to be implying that most people only like one single kind of game which is simply not remotely true. Everyone I personally know that plays Factorio is also interested in games like Deus Ex and Elder Scrolls. Which are the same kind of games as Cyberpunk will be. So it's absolutely more than just some people who will play both.

And even disregarding that, they have other reasons to not release at the same time anyways which they addressed in the FFF post. When a huge game like Cyberpunk 2077 releases, it tends to drown out other games in gaming media. This tends to have negative effects on the smaller games, not just in media coverage but in sales. So from a business standpoint this is a wise decision on Wube's part.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by 5thHorseman »

The main reason to change the release date is the release of Cyberpunk 2077.
...in order to have maximum free time to play it?
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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Muche »

bobucles wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:36 pm
This These values also includes some optimizations implemented by Rseding.
You're going to kill the proofreading team at this rate! :lol:
The first two are trivial changes, even you or I could do them.
Optimization/optimisation seems to be an US/GB difference and indeed means more work - choosing one of the locales, making sure all instances of this word are spelled the same according to the choice, and checking all words that are different between those locales.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by theolderbeholder »

5thHorseman wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:12 am
The main reason to change the release date is the release of Cyberpunk 2077.
...in order to have maximum free time to play it?
Sounds sensible.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Drury »

Hiladdar wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:55 pm
- Fluid mechanics: Fluids work right now. Major risk releasing fluids post 1.0, especially if it breaks something. Beyond that, fluid upgrades can fairly easily be done as a patch. I recommend a lot of testing of fluid mechanics prior to releasing them post 1.0
They work as long as you're not in the business of building a nuclear plant. System breaks at high fluid volume.
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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by mm.lion »

Do you plan to rework the trailer?

Hiladdar
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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Hiladdar »

Muche wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 1:10 pm
bobucles wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:36 pm
This These values also includes some optimizations implemented by Rseding.
You're going to kill the proofreading team at this rate! :lol:
The first two are trivial changes, even you or I could do them.
Optimization/optimisation seems to be an US/GB difference and indeed means more work - choosing one of the locales, making sure all instances of this word are spelled the same according to the choice, and checking all words that are different between those locales.
Is it possible to make a local and maintain it for every single dialect of English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... of_English) yes, is it practical, no.
Like with the application, triage needs to also be done selecting the languages to support. Pick one English dialect, as along as wide usage and is understandable by all. Just, by seeing what is on the multiplayer portal, I would recommend, Russian, Chinese, German, and Spanish as a good start. Then add in the United Nations key languages of French and Arabic. There are may other languages, and if I missed yours, sorry.

One other option is to include additional languages as a free DLC's post release.

I have work as a translators and interpreters, as well had translators and interpreters work for me. From experience this is labor intensive work, computer programs, help as much as hinder. Wrong word usage, incorrect grammar, misspelled words, omitted words, and at best are a source of amusement.

Consider the following the following cropped picture of an official sign:

Eating Carpet Prohibited.png
Eating Carpet Prohibited.png (164.39 KiB) Viewed 1470 times

Any language included, it has to be done right.

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by flish »

I would like to say this is one of the first games I bought have over 1K hrs on it and never launched a rocket. i love all of the mechanics of the game and have felt for a while now development of the game has been great. every update adds a new item that fits in or fixes some obscure bug :lol: (such as chemical plants have the wrong open and close sound and i never noticed) . i love this game and hope the development goes well and the developers continue to make great content. :D 15/10 would spaghetti again
when all else fails build a bigger factory

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by Oktokolo »

Regarding whether on script state serialization functions should be ignored or fail:
Errors should never be ignored.
As saving and save game migration is important to "just work", logging the error, then continuing as if there was no error would be the right thing to do.
Bonus points for showing the error in a message box before going on with the migration or save, so players report the bug and mod authors make their global not store functions.

In an ideal world, there would also be instant failure when a mod tries to store a non-serializable value in global. That way, the error handling code could act the same as on every other mod error - leading to getting mods fixed lightning-fast. Also failing right at the start is obviously better than failing after loading the base next day (mods normally do strange things when expecting something to be stored in global wich is not there).

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by boskid »

Oktokolo wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 6:36 am
Regarding whether on script state serialization functions should be ignored or fail:
Errors should never be ignored.
As saving and save game migration is important to "just work", logging the error, then continuing as if there was no error would be the right thing to do.
Bonus points for showing the error in a message box before going on with the migration or save, so players report the bug and mod authors make their global not store functions.

In an ideal world, there would also be instant failure when a mod tries to store a non-serializable value in global. That way, the error handling code could act the same as on every other mod error - leading to getting mods fixed lightning-fast. Also failing right at the start is obviously better than failing after loading the base next day (mods normally do strange things when expecting something to be stored in global wich is not there).
Rseding had a good point for throwing when saving if value is not migrated properly and i accepted that, but later i checked if mods are able to properly migrate. In 0.18.28 there is base migration requesting to reload scripts needed because of some style changes and script changes made for 0.18.28. This script reload has a side effect of saving and loading script data. If saving would throw, all existing saves with functions in globals would not load because applying base migration would throw on save. When choosing if lua functions should throw or should become nil, i would choose to throw, but when choosing if existing saves with affected mods should become non-loadable anymore at all with no way to fix other than loading in 0.18.27 with fixed mod and resaving, then i have decided: unfortunately i have to nil them, throwing was a bad option. I would like to change it to throw in the future but this will make all saves made in 0.18.27 or earlier with functions in global to permanently fail to load. So functions are nil-ed during serialisation (saving) and there is "Removed <N> lua functions when saving" info line in log.

As for trying to catch functions early during execution, it may not be possible due to performance since it would require careful tracing of all tables if they can be reached from global essentialy meaning iterating over whole global variable every time someone assigns function to something, and every time when trying to assign table to something else (in the end, you may have a table with a functions in it, but when inserting reference of that table into globals would have to throw)

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Re: Friday Facts #349 - The 1.0 plan

Post by lorem_ipsum »

J-H wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:42 pm
Congrats! It's great (and rare) when software runs ahead of schedule.

I've heard of CDPR (Witcher games), and maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard of Cyberpunk 2077 at all.
I just looked it up, and it looks like it's probably got a heavy Deus Ex inspiration. Modern/future modern RPGs set in a land of profanity and cruelty are not up my alley.
Actually it's based on old board RPG game series Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberpunk 2077

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