Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

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Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Koub »

DarkMatterMatt wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:57 pm
Oops, your image links are broken: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... dialog.png
Works for me atm
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by peter50216 »

Koub wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:09 pm
DarkMatterMatt wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:57 pm
Oops, your image links are broken: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... dialog.png
Works for me atm
I'm also seeing 404 not found for the images.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Klonan »

Our Japanese CDN is having some trouble, bear with us

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by AndrewIRL »

Klonan wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:19 pm
Our Japanese CDN is having some trouble, bear with us
Images were not working for me when I started reading the FFF. They just appeared now on a refresh.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by ipvgbm1095 »

I'm kinda having quite mixed emotions from sending the good old NPE introduction campaign back to history. Sure, the older ones were more step-wise and worked better for tutorial, but I had a fun with NPE as well, as someone who kinda suffered from making a factory 'designed for defense and offense', which I don't usually make.

Welcome back, good old tutorial maps, and farewell, NPE. Wish there'd be a legit way to play the NPE again in the future, even if it's not about tutorial.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by valneq »

ipvgbm1095 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:38 pm
Wish there'd be a legit way to play the NPE again in the future, even if it's not about tutorial.
There is a mod around that packages some scenarios and includes the old old New Hope campaign for 0.18 already. I suspect that this mod will adopt the NPE that will be axed. Possibly dropping the old old New Hope since the new old New Hope should be more polished anyway.
The mod's name is simply "Scenarios Pack"
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/JNF

[Edit:] Wait a moment. I think I got things confused. The FFF only talks about "First Steps", which ended with placing a car if I recall correctly. So maybe "New Hope" will remain playable via the mentioned mod (or if you still have a copy somwhere ^^).

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Mk.II »

New Hope was great — when I first started playing Factorio I wandered offtrack (in terms of objectives) and built a large base out of the existing rail base, and that’s much closer to genuine Factorio experience than the extremely cramped NPE. It was a big disappointed when I thought of reliving the campaign during 0.17 only to find out it was removed. Can’t wait to relive it when it’s out.

Edit: Oops, apparently confused New Hope with First Steps like the dude above. Not sure First Steps left much of an impression on me.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by rojcowles »

I'm torn about this. I picked up Factorio several years ago and started with the original tutorial, I think. I was barely 10-15 minutes in and still confused by the control system (I'm not a hard core gamer and only ever play Minecraft on Creative) when I was getting jumped by Biters and after my 3rd death quit as I was looking for a factory builder experience not survival/horror.

Fast forward to 6 months or so ago I gave Factorio (0.17) another chance and the new Introduction/Demo seemed a much easier on-ramp, I was introduced to the world and the concepts and got used to the controls and the Biter attacks came in after I was adequately prepared, though initially they were still freaky, and minutes later I realized it was 5:00 AM and I should probably go to bed.

Anyway just my 0.02c, which is about what its worth...

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Hiladdar »

When I stared playing, I jumped right into the game, trashing several bases only to restart along the way. My biggest challenge was figuring out how to make something happen using the game's interface. For that I used the in-game tutorials and streamed content.

For other games, I have played the Campaign included in the game and enjoy that. Done right, I think it is a valuable component of a game. What was included in .16 and .17 did not meet that level of quality or interest. I think it may take more assets then available prior to late September to design a stand along Campaign or new player experience done right. My recommendation is to build upon the existing tutorials, where the game can be paused, and a player can take the time to learn new functionality, as it is needed during the building of a base.

Scenarios can be included, but they should be structured in such a way so that they can be completed in a 1-2 hours gaming session. Each scenario can focus on a specific aspect of the game, and can be used to support or expand on what is presented within the tutorials.

I think it does make sense to design and include a campaign at some time in the future. The campaign could be released as downloadable content sometime post version 1.0.

Tutorial, scenarios, campaign, or whatever, I recommend it be done right, and be Boskid tested, certified, and approved, as a polished component or downloadable content, or not released at all. One option for releasing some additional content is via the mod portal. In this situation, the released content will not be expected to have as high level of quality as Version 1.0 and will not have the spotlight on it as version 1.0 is expected top have. What ever is released with version 1.0 will have a more scrutiny then the alpha / beta versions or mods, especially by social medial influences and reviews.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Dev-iL »

I get that the current demo\tutorial may not align with the game vision, but why would you remove this content if many players see the value in it?

Please explain where is the harm in keeping the new NPE as one of the scenarios in the full game.
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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by KoblerMan »

Dev-iL wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:49 pm
I get that the current demo\tutorial may not align with the game vision, but why would you remove this content if many players see the value in it?

Please explain where is the harm in keeping the new NPE as one of the scenarios in the full game.
THIS, 100%. The NPE campaign just looked so good but I never even got a chance to try it, because I didn't even know it was being removed before it was too late. At the very least, you'd think that sort of campaign (with the waves of biters attacking towards the end) would be a way to put the player's skills in what they've learned about the game to the test - a challenge that occurs after the first tutorial.

Wube, if you're reading this, please consider adding it back in since it's feature complete anyway. Stringing people along with "Oh hey, look, we made this really awesome thing!" just to turn around and say you've axed it is really disheartening. I'm still upset about having to manually tick the research queue on every single new game... and if I forget about it, by the time I realize I don't have a research queue I'm already halfway to oil production. I still wish I could just set it to enabled by default so I don't have to dive into the advanced settings every new map.
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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by bman212121 »

KoblerMan wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:58 pm
The NPE campaign just looked so good but I never even got a chance to try it, because I didn't even know it was being removed before it was too late.
But it's not too late. There isn't a version of the game right now you can get that doesn't have it in there. The 17 branch is going to have it all the way up until 18 stable. The current version of 18 experimental you can download right now has the version that will be replaced in it. So if you're worried about missing out, there's basically nothing stopping you from playing it right now. It might be a couple months until we see 18 stable, so the default version on Steam is still going to be the old version.


That said, I don't have an opinion on the current intro campaign either way. I have never played it, and honestly don't have any desire to. If you're watching a let's play video, it's probably of free play, which is what 90% of the game content revolves around. I've only ever played free play outside of trying wave defense once, so I can completely understand why the tutorial should match what people are going to play.

If anything, I'm more interested in the new "tight spot" scenario that's in .18. Because I almost always click multiplayer, connect to server, I didn't even see that was a new thing until i was trying to start a new map for another server. Someone else setup the map last time, so I never clicked into single player to even notice new content was added.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Philip017 »

sad to see that all the hard work on the NPE is just going to be removed from the game, it would be nice if in some fashion it could remain in the game. perhaps it will be picked up by a mod, i recommend that the assets remain in the game so as to make the NPE re-add-able. although the custom assemblers can be adapted from the regular one, but the graphics for the broken reactor, and science really should be kept imo.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by IronCartographer »

I would love it if the scenario script had resource meteorites fall and create fresh deposits if you "failed," but understandably that could also give the wrong idea about how finite maps work in general.

Just to confirm: The new old tutorial (First Steps) will end with the car, rather than having the ruined rail map, combat mission, and "escape with the plane" bits from New Hope?

Makes sense if so. That said, I don't think you'll ever truly escape the "Tutorial Mission is a Mission" problem of avoiding being different on the tin than what's inside. The argument about not jumping to assemblers instantly, and keeping that as player agency / progression makes sense, but any tutorial outside of Free Play will give a taste of Factorio-style questing that will leave some players hungry for more.

And that's okay. More potential for post-1.0 content should you desire to pursue it. :)

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Unknow0059 »

It's still a shame that we won't get a campaign of any kind.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by Hanakocz »

Please, leave the assets in the game. Compilatron is useful and shallow water should be incorporated into regular maps rather than deleted.

In general, personally I would keep the dead end scenario, but repurpose it. Expose all the scripting and turn it into "how to make scenario" tutorial, with this easy and quite short mission as set of examples. It maybe all is already accessible somewhere, but with few professional touches it can have good value compared to "read the scripting wiki".

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by TheRaph »

Hanakocz wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:07 pm
In general, personally I would keep the dead end scenario, but repurpose it. Expose all the scripting and turn it into "how to make scenario" tutorial, with this easy and quite short mission as set of examples. It maybe all is already accessible somewhere, but with few professional touches it can have good value compared to "read the scripting wiki".
+1
ipvgbm1095 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:38 pm
I'm kinda having quite mixed emotions from sending the good old NPE introduction campaign back to history.
...
Wish there'd be a legit way to play the NPE again in the future, even if it's not about tutorial.
+1
Please leave that campaign in game!!!

There are nice things to learn from (how to interact with player for example) and a nice little Story.
I fully understand the decision of not to have it as demo and first steps. But I don't understand why you've decided to remove it completely.

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Re: Friday Facts #342 - The new old tutorial

Post by pichutarius »

Im happy to hear NPE is axed and "First step" is brought back!

I try to change my mind about NPE, always giving NPE another try, always disappointed by it.

"New hope" broken rail level is what makes me finally clicked and LOVE factorio. Hope that they consider putting "New hope" back in.

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