Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

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Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by FactorioBot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:10 pm


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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by CakeDog » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:15 pm

I bought my Factorio key via GOG. A real digital store, unlike the infested cancer that is G2A.


Safe to say, I was very pleased with my purchase.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Kriss7475 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:27 pm

Regarding the G2A issue, I think people buy Factorio Europe to sell there in Poland as Factorio in Poland it's sold for 70 PLN (Steam), which is under 20$ according to both SteamDB and Google, whereas it should be sold for 110 PLN for the price to be around 30$ (28.98$ according to Google). I have just checked and the prices on G2A for Europe Gift start with 79 PLN.

Edit: This makes it even more plausible given that G2A was established in Poland and is very popular here.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:46 pm

you thought the biters were too cute
Indeed, they're marriage material, just ask any turret !
Image
(By DJDerond.)

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:50 pm

So, what is the difference between Humble Widget and G2A that is leading to such radically different results ?
That G2A only works through Steam (/Origin/Microsoft) keys ?
(Also, I hear that GoG has implemented their own key system recently ?)

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Lubricus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:59 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:50 pm
So, what is the difference between Humble Widget and G2A that is leading to such radically different results ?
That G2A only works through Steam (/Origin/Microsoft) keys ?
(Also, I hear that GoG has implemented their own key system recently ?)
They resell key's bought with stolen credit cards.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Oktokolo » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:00 pm

In wich countries is buying in one region and selling in another a "fraud" as has been implied by the term "regional fraud"?

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Lubricus wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:59 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:50 pm
So, what is the difference between Humble Widget and G2A that is leading to such radically different results ?
That G2A only works through Steam (/Origin/Microsoft) keys ?
(Also, I hear that GoG has implemented their own key system recently ?)
They resell key's bought with stolen credit cards.
So the difference is that the Humble Widget is not connected to a game keys marketplace where a third party can sell keys ?

Oktokolo wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:00 pm
In wich countries is buying in one region and selling in another a "fraud" as has been implied by the term "regional fraud"?
I guess that's it's an informal way to say that is not nice to abuse a system (by speculating on the spread) that was put in place to make digital goods more affordable for people living in poorer countries?

P.S.: In other news, GoG has stopped offering regional pricing difference rebates, due to feeling the heat from the competition arising with the arrival of Epic's Store :
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/0 ... g-rebates/

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Mango » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:21 pm

why does it matter exactly which version we call stable?
Well... I expect that stable releases will not contain game breaking bugs. If you state that a release Is stable, I do not expect biters getting 10x stronger or global train crashing.

So from my point of view it does matter. ;)
Hm.... so we have a mystery doner... intriguing.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Philip017 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:34 pm

at the rate that the factorio developers patch the game, and fix game breaking bugs, i absolutely have no problem playing the experimental version. if i encounter a game breaking bug, i can revert to the previous version if i want to continue my game now, or i can wait a day or two and the super fast factorio devs will release a patch to fix it and i can resume my game.

it is a shame when my trains spaz out and decide to run into each other, but if you aren't achievement hunting you can save yourself some heart ake and the pain of getting run over by your trains by disabling friendly fire. i personally run every single player game with friendly fire off now. my trains will still get stuck, run out of fuel, but that is part of the game, and as we experimental players get to enjoy the game earlier than those waiting for a stable release, we in turn get to provide valuable feedback so the devs can make the game better.

i have to say i bought the game for $20, absolutely the best value for that money in any game i have ever bought. it is definitely worth the $30 they are asking for today, if you decide the game is not for you, well im sorry you didn't care for it, but a refund can be made in short order, for the rest of us, playing for thousands of hours, is the calling we pursue.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by dee- » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Bought the game way ago directly from you, the devs.

Best decision ever:
- portable binaries
- no Steam cruft
- maximum amount of $$$ went to the devs without middlemen
- could give some close friends an older version of the game on an USB-Stick missing now essential parts (Nukular Power, even Combinators) as a sort of "trial version" and they ALL bought the full game for 30 bucks. They would either delete it without hesitating if they did not like it becauae they are not invested or get their first shot of addiction and upgrade to full. I somehow feel like a drug dealer now, gobbling up people's free time.

Very happy.
Last edited by dee- on Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Ultros » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm

No wonder the anti-fraud on Humble was over-tuned to the point of blocking a perfectly legitimate purchase from me. The devs have apparently 10% fraud rates prior to switching up their payment system.

Thank god for GOG and their sane systems.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by perkel » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:51 pm

Lubricus wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:59 pm
They resell key's bought with stolen credit cards.
They sell keys. They don't have ability to check if key is fraudulent or not. Same as Ebay or any other flea market.
Which is to say it is not G2A problem because they are platform to connect people who sell with people who buy.

Credit Card fraud comes from Credit Card companies having so called "chargeback" where you can go to police and they will force shop in which card was used to charge back customer its money. Either you do it or your are out of CC system.
Which is to say that this is entirely CC system issue not adjusted to online. And basically those companies fuck over shops and devs.

Devs naturally don't have a way to deal with such bahemots so they take it on G2A or any other flea market that dares to sell their keys who people bought.

Arguing that they are the problem is like arguing that ebay is problem because someone stole your phone and sells through it.
BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm
I guess that's it's an informal way to say that is not nice to abuse a system (by speculating on the spread) that was put in place to make digital goods more affordable for people living in poorer countries?
It is informal way to say "globalism for me but not for thee".
I bought my version from site back when it was 10$ from Poland where their site is registered in Czech or whatever.
So i gather they didn't have problem back then when i bought it from their site despite them not having any presence in Poland.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by factoriouzr » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:55 pm

I bought 2 copies of the game years ago just to support you guys from your site directly as I don't like DRM and don't regret it. It's a great game made by a great developer.

On another topic, I have been waiting for the promised blueprint library upgrades that you promised a year or more ago(?). The current one is kind of an in-between and unfinished version. It's great that you are fixing all these bugs but could you please start working on a full implementation of the blueprint library, linking, management, etc. There has been radio silence on this topic ever since 0.17.0 was released. Please try to get to this soon and post an update on this.

Thanks ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Sander_Bouwhuis » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:44 pm

Hmmm... I bought Hitman 1 GOTY edition from G2A last month, and last week Middle-Earth Shadow of War Definitive Edition.
On their website they have a rating system where it says the keys all work properly.

Are you saying this is not true? If it is not true, wouldn't the police or tax service have arrested them?!?
I mean, as you saw they are the first result on Google.

PS
I bought Factorio from the devs, so no worries there.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by Loewchen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:50 pm

Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:44 pm
Hmmm... I bought Hitman 1 GOTY edition from G2A last month, and last week Middle-Earth Shadow of War Definitive Edition.
On their website they have a rating system where it says the keys all work properly.

Are you saying this is not true? If it is not true, wouldn't the police or tax service have arrested them?!?
I mean, as you saw they are the first result on Google.

PS
I bought Factorio from the devs, so no worries there.
All keys bought with stolen credit cards work until the publisher cancels them, the point is, the publisher does not get any money and even worse has to pay the charge back fee.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Ultros wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm
No wonder the anti-fraud on Humble was over-tuned to the point of blocking a perfectly legitimate purchase from me. The devs have apparently 10% fraud rates prior to switching up their payment system.

Thank god for GOG and their sane systems.
Humble and Humble Widget are distinct though, aren't they?

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by SWSe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:15 pm

@Sander_Bouwhuis
They are not the first result, they are an ad. That was the whole point of the screenshot. They pay Google money to show up before any ordinary search results for specific search terms. You can tell from it saying "Ad" below the link. This is common practise from sites like Google or Amazon etc.

They are a shady gray area market, so they haven't been shut down. I don't know about how many of the keys are working properly, but
A: only SOME keys there are illegitimate, some are legit. Who knows how many of them are which?
B: they only get detected a while later, so people might not change their rating at that point

They are a site that makes laundring money via credit card fraud super easy, their excuses are sleazy and manipulative, their countermeasures are a joke, and they have not reacted much or been helpful despite many developers speaking out against their practices and trying to prevent this. This has been going on for years.

However, the games you bought were from a big publisher - they can usually afford losing some money even if the keys were illegitimate. They used to deactivate them as well, but I think Ubisoft and others got quite a shitstorm a few years ago since customers were often unaware. Maybe they just ignore it now. Doesn't mean it's great, but they can take it even if your keys were not legit.

The smaller developers, however, are often already struggling financially. While Wube seem to be doing fine, many who aren't as successful or get bought by Microsoft for billions of $ can't afford this. So especially with indie games, it's probably more ethical to keep away from sites like g2a. Even though only some keys are illegaly obtained, those still mean devs have to spend extra time and pay the chargeback fees.

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by irbork » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:29 pm

Good FFF! Very informative :idea: , kind of funny :lol: but also a little bit sad :(

I'm waiting for next stable because I want to play the next experimental with the improved logistic information gui ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #303 - Under 100 bugs (but still not stable)

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:59 pm

SWSe wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:15 pm
They are a shady gray area market, so they haven't been shut down. I don't know about how many of the keys are working properly, but
A: only SOME keys there are illegitimate, some are legit. Who knows how many of them are which?
B: they only get detected a while later, so people might not change their rating at that point
But the FFF and the linked article tell us !
According to G2A : potentially 0.02% of the keys they sell are illegitimate.
According to Wube : A whopping 10% of chargebacks.
(That would then be 300 out of ~3k website purchases compared to ~600k Steam purchases in 2016 ?)
Last edited by BlueTemplar on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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