Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Regular reports on Factorio development.
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Lubricus
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Lubricus » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:49 am

I don't think the theme and story element's of factorio is that important or good. So I think Wube should go fore a place that is nice to be and working with the factory in rather than pushing an artistic idea. I like artistic indie game where the main point is an disturbing atmosphere and story. Facorio have other points that is so strong so the atmosphere shouldn't interfere with that rather enhance what it's already is good at.
So I vote for graphics and sounds that is easy to the ears and eyes and where stuff is easy to discern. Like rimworld music is super it is just sounds that makes you just calm and happy.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Rakshasa » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:34 pm

For some weird reason I feel more for the biters than I do for that feminist in that red red game.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Amarula » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:04 pm

Tomik wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:51 pm
Uh oh. Guys? Factorio planet already has an in-game file. It was found by modders who looked at the game code. The planet is called Nauvis which literally means 'New'.
Thanks Tomik, I believe you win the prize for being the first one to point this out.
redinator2000 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:41 am
Something like "Oreo". You add the factory.
Oh I like how this combines with the existing name: Nauvis you add the factory.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by J-H » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:06 pm

Rakshasa wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:34 pm
For some weird reason I feel more for the biters than I do for that feminist in that red red game.
Well, yes, nobody likes feminists. The 2nd/3rd wave feminists are women who don't like expressing love for their families with anything other than words, or who are women who want to be men while keeping the privileges of being a woman.

I agree that more biter variety would be nice. I'm on my 25th factory, unknown # of hours (hundreds). There are small, medium, and big biters, plus nests and worm turrets. There are biters that bite, and biters that spit.... and that is all I know. Two mobile types, one stationary type, and three sizes. The occasional flying biter or jumping biter (as a small % of force, not as the entire force) could be good.
Aquatic biters could be nice as well. Rare, and only in lakes of a certain size, but they would be interesting for making the seashore more dangerous.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by meganothing » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:09 pm

That the last post of the devs about making peace with the aliens seems to be from 2014 is not a good sign. A bit strange because there seems to be everything already in the game to make it work in a very basic form:

All you need is a formula similar to X= A / B

with
A the time since the last alien breeder was destroyed and the last pollution cloud reached a nest
B the sum of killed aliens (B has to start at a high value so the aliens don't start peaceful)

If X is greater than a specific constant, the game acts as if the peaceful option is activated.

Naturally I could be overlooking something. The formula makes it possible to initially expand and then optimize your factory to produce just the pollution that gets dissipated. Killing aliens might make them enter hostile mode again. But because war mode doesn't turn all aliens instantly into aggressive aliens, only newly breds (AFAIK) a pollution cloud reaching a nest isn't immediately spelling doom.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by DustFireSky » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:18 pm

First of, i like all of your Friday news / facts.

Well, personally i don't like the new design. I know it's not finished, but it looks too different as before.

It has something like
ga.jpg
ga.jpg (8.09 KiB) Viewed 639 times
(Whole appearance)

and
predator.jpg
predator.jpg (31.07 KiB) Viewed 639 times
(The claws)

They are not cute! Cute is something like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkZ_wc8ML18

A disgusting spider transformed into a cute spider. He did it right! If u would do the same with the biters, u would have absolutely right, but the new design is more like
sparta.jpg
sparta.jpg (38.77 KiB) Viewed 639 times
Kill them all! :D

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by T-A-R » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:46 pm

The animation feels crisp, but the 6 legs together are not walking as an insect, maybe give them teeth in stead of paws. The front legs missing a joint make the focus turn to the 4 rear legs running as a horse.
The order of movement is correct, but the front legs are weird. It makes fighting more looking as kangaroo, rather then a praying mantis. i love them being insectoid but the proportions are a bit weird. And i don't think they became more cute atm. I think id like them better cuter then scarier. (think about the biter plushies:p). It would be cool if biters make more sounds. Like around the hive, and when their state turns aggressive etc.

I love the idea of a mod replacing biters for cute little cats spawning out of a cardboard box.

EDIT: I find it very ironic, you give spotlight too a mod starting with only a pickaxe entity, the week after killing the pickaxe as a entity!

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Dry Hairy Tree » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:23 pm

The flexible exoskeleton of the biter is not realistic. Nor are the stumpy front legs. You could stick with six legs all of the same length but the front pair with fighting appendages attached to the joints similar to GOT dragon design. Tougher legs, with tough knuckles...

Take yourself, your graphic designer and a pair of magnifying glasses off to a museum of natural history. Examine the insect collection. You will love it, and come back with better ideas.

The form is the function. Those things look all set to fall on their face.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Killcreek2 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:50 pm

Dry Hairy Tree wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:23 pm
The flexible exoskeleton of the biter is not realistic. Nor are the stumpy front legs.
Came here to post the same thing:

The skin of the biter shown in the FFF looks flexible, soft & supple ~ as found on a caterpillar, grub or maggot.
It does not look like the rigid plates of an armoured exoskeleton ~ as found on most insects, arachnids & crustaceans.
These hard armoured plates move over / under each other as the organism moves, they do not flex & stretch (as shown in the FFF).


The front legs should be larger than the rear, if they are supposed to be used for fighting ~ as found on lobster, crab, preying mantis, hunting spiders, scorpions, etc.
Having short stumpy front legs is like imagining a T-rex in a boxing match ~ kinda ridiculous.
Also this makes it look like their centre of balance is under their tails, not centred under the main body.


I like the idea to make them a bit cuter & evoke some sympathy from the player, but I think you have the current design rather backwards.

Thanks & keep up the hard work!
"Functional simplicity, structural complexity." ~ Appleseed

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Cilyan » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:40 am

I already feel sorry for the biters, because they are on their own land, and we have no other choice to survive than destroy it and destroy them altogether. I like this part of the game, when besides the mechanics, it makes you think a bit more about greater subjects. When I talk about Factorio, I often mention this aspect, and how it makes you think about our own planet. This is an important part of the game.

The sorryness, in my opinion, doesn't come with the look, but more with the projection and identification. And that comes with the behavior. It has been said above and I like the idea of a more family-like behavior. Grownups breed and defend smaller ones ("kids") that cannot attack themselves. They could also have gathering activities, for example berries or flowers that go away due to pollution and makes them angry.

The game has some possiblities to reduce impact of our expansion on the ecosystem (solar panels, mainly), and it would be nice to have more choice on how to develop with minimal impact on the original occupants.
Also, instead of going full ammo on them, there could be some possibility to use repelents, with of course a trade off. It would extend the thinking about your actions. For example murdering them is quick, using repelent takes more time so it limits your expansion rate.
It could be possible to construct shelters for them instead, allowing them to live along your factory in a friendly fashion. This would raise the question if this process is at all ethical, and maybe you could risk a "mutiny" if you abuse the system, ...

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Termak » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:40 am

They look really nice,i hope there will be more different types and behaviours of the biters in future.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by eradicator » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:33 pm

Cilyan wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:40 am
I already feel sorry for the biters, because they are on their own land, and we have no other choice to survive than destroy it and destroy them altogether.
Technically you don't need to expand to survive. The factory is a machine whichs only purpose is to expand itself, it does not help you, you help the factory. Nothing in the game serves any other purpose. For pure survival you could simply not build a factory. But because you want to play the game you actively chose the way of destruction.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by ske » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:39 pm

Those rubbery biters widdle along a winding path.
Last edited by ske on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by Aardwolf » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:45 pm

Are the biters truly supposed to be "cute"?

If so, some of the cute enemies of "Epic Battle Fantasy 5" may be an inspiration:

http://kupogames.com/category/sketches/

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:13 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:33 pm
Technically you don't need to expand to survive.
...if you have Biter expansion and/or aggression turned off.

Otherwise you need to continuously expand to get the resources needed to fend them off.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by dood » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:35 pm

Where did that decision to make it cute come from anyway?
Were you inspired by something?

I've been watching made in abyss lately and it managed to make this thing cute:
Image
So if you want it to be cute, maybe it would help if you designed it to also work as a plush toy?
Kind of like banelings in starcraft 2.

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by mexmer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:28 pm

dood wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Where did that decision to make it cute come from anyway?
Were you inspired by something?

I've been watching made in abyss lately and it managed to make this thing cute:
Image
So if you want it to be cute, maybe it would help if you designed it to also work as a plush toy?
Kind of like banelings in starcraft 2.
banelings are cute, especially when they hugh you :mrgreen:

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by eradicator » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:50 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:13 pm
eradicator wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:33 pm
Technically you don't need to expand to survive.
...if you have Biter expansion and/or aggression turned off.

Otherwise you need to continuously expand to get the resources needed to fend them off.
Incorrect, as they will never expand into the starting area ;).
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:58 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:50 pm
Incorrect, as they will never expand into the starting area ;).
Really? You truly do learn something new every day.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter

Post by mexmer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:17 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:58 pm
eradicator wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:50 pm
Incorrect, as they will never expand into the starting area ;).
Really? You truly do learn something new every day.
they don't expand to starting area, but they will still attack it, when pollution hit's them, unless you turn aggression off.

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