Friday Facts #211 - The little things

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Vinnie_NL
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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Vinnie_NL » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:30 pm

Great! To be honest I didn't experience the ugly belt and pipe blueprints as a problem anymore as I got used to it. But now that I know it can be fixed I'm really looking forward to it. You can see it as just a minor inconvenience, but if you use blueprints a lot, and you should use it a lot, this will improve the gameplay everytime an equal amount of times. Related to the blueprints, is being considered to have the blueprints not ending up in the inventory after use? I found these suggestions on the forum about the subject:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52584&p=307506&hili ... ry#p307506
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51846&p=302677&hili ... ry#p302677

Thanks for this awesome game already, I wouldn't know what to do with my time otherwise :D

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by cid0rz » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Hey, great news! once you are reviewing the blueprint part, please ad mirroring for blueprints. In KBM there were these mirroring facilities and I think is very practical. As always, please consider adding sending train to sations with signlas, please! :roll: Thank you for your dedication and patience

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by FasterJump » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:40 pm

I think mirrored blueprints would be a nice QoL improvement.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by DanGio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:42 pm

Concerning the question marks in blueprint : one can deduce it was 3x3 entities, but a light square around could help ?

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by leitk » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Could you do pipes with a little display only logic for blueprints and ghosts?
Check each of the 4 locations around it to see if there is a pipe connection (pipe, assembler input/output, pump, tank, etc).

And then there are 16 combinations, 4 three way T's, 2 straights connecting things on opposite sides, 4 straights with just one connection, 1 four way connection, 1 no connections (another straight), and 4 90 degree turns.

It should only need to be checked on item placement, so it shouldn't be a performance issue.

Something like this:

Code: Select all

#define NORTH 0x08
#define WEST  0x04
#define EAST  0x02
#define SOUTH 0x01

case NORTH | WEST | EAST | SOUTH:
display 4way;
break;
...
case NORTH | SOUTH:
case NORTH:
case SOUTH:
case 0:
display north-south pipe;
break;

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by TRUEpicness » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:14 pm

kovarex wrote:
maniak1349 wrote:Little things like this actually are what makes Factorio what it is. Looking forward for loads of those in 0.16.
Also can we expect anytime soon in depth FFF about UI changes that are under way?
Yes, the next FFF will be about that (although it is for 0.17).
0.17 hype starting!!
1 more YouTube vid before bed *starts 24hr long vid*

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Peter34 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:19 pm

I really don't think that you need to add much more content to the game.

I'm already super-excited about the Fission Power system added in 0.15, and even more so the Buffer Chests that you'll add in 0.16.

A few things that I am hoping for:
1. Getting a SpiderTron for the early part of the mid-game, so that I can walk around and over the buildings (and Trees), octopedally, inside my factory, in order to get around quickly. Alternatively, some kind of short-hop Jump Jet for the Modular Armor. A Hover Mode that lasts 6 seconds, +3 per additional module.
2. A system so that mods are auto-downloaded and auto-enabled when you join a MP server (and unneeded mods are auto-disabled). This would make the game much more spontaneously social.
3. A re-think of Fission Power to make the ratios less arcane. I don't mind the Adjacency stuff, +100% and +200% and even +300%, that's fun, but all those decimal value multipliers...
4. Some kind of elaborate Armor Module Effect Stacking system, so that effects aren't always linear, but use someeasily understandable diminishing returns system (see Jump Jet above).
5. Armour Modules being able to give specific Damage Reduction, e.g. against Poison. I might want, for instance, a Gas Mask Module if I'm going around removing Tress with Poison Capsules. This also needs to be thought through, so that in some cases like Poison, you can get total immunity to low and medium doses (the equivalent of a sealed suit) while in others you can't get more than like 90% or 98% Damage Reduction (damage of more physical natures).

Other than that, I think Factorio is already a very solid game. It might benefit from more optimization for those who do megafactories (since Intel doesn't seem able or willing to give us markedly faster CPUs), and I do think perhaps Modular/Power Armor warrants another iterative re-think, but all in all I've been very happy with the game for a long time, although right now I'm taking a break because I am super duper horny for those Buffer Chests that'll come in 0.16. I imagine they'll do a lot to make Factories run more smoothly.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by MeduSalem » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:26 pm

Peter34 wrote:3. A re-think of Fission Power to make the ratios less arcane. I don't mind the Adjacency stuff, +100% and +200% and even +300%, that's fun, but all those decimal value multipliers...
Actually I hope they rework the Adjacency system altogether in the future to make different setups other than 2*n setups also viable. Because currently everything that doesn't follow the 2*n scheme is completely inefficient and not even worth trying except if you have so much Uranium that you simply don't care about wasting it.

Also I've already seen several people having trouble understanding the current adjacency system in the first place... either they didn't know that the reactors have to align perfectly with one another or that the efficiency increases the more reactors are placed into the 2*n scheme. So it lacks some straight-forward clarity about the mechanic as well.

If it would work similar to how Beacons boost nearby buildings then I guess it would be easier to understand.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by drmason13 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:08 pm

Will the artillery train be moddeable? I would love to see a mixture of super long range artillery, mid range cannons and short range gun turrets.

Could be fun to orchestrate a creeping train advance.

Also an interesting method for flexible base defence. Keep some gun trains in reserve to dispatch towards large incoming waves of biters.

Once you start down the road of trains being more than chests/storage tanks on wheels the possibilities get exciting. Roboport trains?

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by ske » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:16 pm

A logical riddle:

A prisoner was sentenced to death and the judge said "You will be hanged next week but the exact day of your death will come as a surprise to you." The prisoner was devastated when he heard that and they brought him back to his cell. But later that night he was sound asleep and awoke joyfully the next morning stating: "I know I won't be hanged."

"How so?" the guard asked.

The prisoner replied: "Simple. If I'm not hanged by thursday I'll have to be hanged on friday. But then I know that and it won't be a surprise anymore. The judge said it will be a surprise so it can't be Friday. Also, by the same logic, it can't be Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday or Monday. It can't be on any day. I will walk free by next week."

---

I may apply the same logic to ye 'ol spidey bot which also was said to come as a surprise by the next release. Then it didn't come. Then they said it won't come. So it will for sure because factorio is a game of strict logic!

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by tazdu29 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:49 pm

MeduSalem wrote:
Peter34 wrote:3. A re-think of Fission Power to make the ratios less arcane. I don't mind the Adjacency stuff, +100% and +200% and even +300%, that's fun, but all those decimal value multipliers...
Actually I hope they rework the Adjacency system altogether in the future to make different setups other than 2*n setups also viable. Because currently everything that doesn't follow the 2*n scheme is completely inefficient and not even worth trying except if you have so much Uranium that you simply don't care about wasting it.

Also I've already seen several people having trouble understanding the current adjacency system in the first place... either they didn't know that the reactors have to align perfectly with one another or that the efficiency increases the more reactors are placed into the 2*n scheme. So it lacks some straight-forward clarity about the mechanic as well.

If it would work similar to how Beacons boost nearby buildings then I guess it would be easier to understand.
Please may the devs add tutorials for these ! Also for logic circuits ! There's plenty of potential on tutorials, but unused !

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by eradicator » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:32 pm

MeduSalem wrote: *snip*

Actually I hope they rework the Adjacency system altogether in the future to make different setups other than 2*n setups also viable. Because currently everything that doesn't follow the 2*n scheme is completely inefficient and not even worth trying [...]

*snip*

If it would work similar to how Beacons boost nearby buildings then I guess it would be easier to understand.
Actually beacons suffer from the exact same problem of a too rigid bonus system. Everything that is not straight lines of beacons interleaved with straight lines of assemblers is inefficient. But the only way to "fix" this would be to remove the stackability of beacon bonuses, so that every assemblers only gets the bonus once.
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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by QGamer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:26 am

The blueprint updates look cool!

And I'm also glad that new content is being added. I like the visual improvements and all that, but they're just visual, and they don't really affect gameplay. New gameplay elements should make the game more interesting if done right.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Patashu » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:42 am

I doubt vanilla beacons will change at this point, but being able to modify how beacons work in mods (different area of effect besides just a square, like maybe a diamond or a circle or straight lines, using a different formula for beacon stacking besides linear addition, etc) could be enough to satisfy desires of the community here.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by bobucles » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:42 am

Ah, sweet. Quality of life stuff.

Locking vehicle inventory. Too many times I've had items ripped out of a vehicle (yes it's helicopter mod) and randomly scattered around the base.

The ability to use eyedropper without the item on hand. For better ghosting. An ability to ghost with empty inventory would be great for creative uses as well.

The ability to add or remove modules remotely, even if it takes a special module planner or something.

An upgraded eyedropper that copies the settings of the ghosts you build on( belt direction, assembly task, etc.) Bonus points if it places the correct item too. Maybe shift q?

Some kind of giant spider robot thing that crushes biters and goes toot toot.

Some sort of gate to allow or restrict train access. Loops make the entire track accessible to all trains and in some cases that is really bad. Maybe if a gate is locked to a station, so that trains without that station gets denied? A train black/white list? I dunno.

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:55 am

I strongly support some way to blueprint with stuff you don't have. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what if you want to build a nuclear power plant, but all the reactors are int the logistics system? You wither have to craft one by hand (and you probably don't have 500 of each red circuits, copper, steel, and concrete on you), find it's location in the logistics network, or request it via bot. It would be nice if there was a much more simple way to do that.
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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:51 am

ske wrote:A logical riddle:

A prisoner was sentenced to death and the judge said "You will be hanged next week but the exact day of your death will come as a surprise to you." The prisoner was devastated when he heard that and they brought him back to his cell. But later that night he was sound asleep and awoke joyfully the next morning stating: "I know I won't be hanged."

"How so?" the guard asked.

The prisoner replied: "Simple. If I'm not hanged by thursday I'll have to be hanged on friday. But then I know that and it won't be a surprise anymore. The judge said it will be a surprise so it can't be Friday. Also, by the same logic, it can't be Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday or Monday. It can't be on any day. I will walk free by next week."
And when they came on Tuesday to hang him, boy was he surprised!
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Bizz Keryear » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:40 am

At first, while using the blueprints, I thought: "it would be nice if things would look the when they are constructed.
But then I realized that the current way is actually better for early game (before you have robots) because that way you are never confused which way a belt is facing. And trust me, despite having many hundred hours of Factory under my belt, I still manage to get this wrong from time to time.
I guess It can't hurt if it is the new fancy way in the blueprint itself.

But once stamped down it should stay the current one ... that also helps to see where are still parts are missing, let alone the orientation.

However there a few things I would like to be able to include in blueprints ... and that are cables. Sometimes it is crucial to don't have connections between poles even if they are in range of each other (because you actually wanted to utilize a switch) and some things you really want to have a cable connected to ... and not just logic cables like now but power cables.
And if it is just for your OCD ... (I have this neat optimized solar array setup ... and it [the power grid poles] builds really neat squares ... but sometimes because of random reasons ... instead of a square it makes a cross ... and it really bugs me)

Also I really would like to have change to the ghosting of rail signals. They (the ghosts) are not only hard to differentiate from placed ones. But also if you are about to place some down manually the indicator where you can / should place signals is going over the ghost and makes it almost impossible to see.
Better would be if these ghost would be highlighted in some way ... after the motto : "You wanted / planned to put some down here but haven't yet. Take that into consideration"

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Bizz Keryear » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:45 am

Jap2.0 wrote:I strongly support some way to blueprint with stuff you don't have. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what if you want to build a nuclear power plant, but all the reactors are int the logistics system? You wither have to craft one by hand (and you probably don't have 500 of each red circuits, copper, steel, and concrete on you), find it's location in the logistics network, or request it via bot. It would be nice if there was a much more simple way to do that.
That will be possible when the new inventory system comes, where your hotbar don't contain items anymore. You then can put anything in there even if you don't have it in your inventory. It then also shows how many of them you have in your inventory.
FasterJump wrote:I think mirrored blueprints would be a nice QoL improvement.
I sign that as well

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Re: Friday Facts #211 - The little things

Post by Ormek » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:10 am

Yes!

Please continue working on the little things! Please polish! You have created a superb game engine, but you haven't created a great game yet.


Honestly, the UI is very simplistic. It does do its job, but it is not always intuitive and straight forward. I propose a study from an usability expert that has an unobstructed view as an outsider. So no one with 250h of game time like myself.

I still do believe that you should invest man power into creating a campaign that introduces the complexity of the game little by little. I did love the existing campaign chapters that introduced me to trains and "far away" train stations. I would love to play multiple campaigns that would introduce me to networks.

All the best! I wish you all the success in the world, whichever path you may choose!

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