Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Regular reports on Factorio development.

Rhamphoryncus
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Rhamphoryncus »

It's impressive how much engineering has to go into something as conceptually simple as inserters just so you never have to think about them!

dauphin
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:59 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by dauphin »

I assume one of the big caveats for the performance increase on the belts is that, in order to render, you still have to calculate the absolute position of each item on the belt?

This has been one of the best recent FFFs. Good show!

Cyberboss_JHCB
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Cyberboss_JHCB »

Will underground belts still be any faster than regular belts, even if it's just miniscule?

keyboardhack
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by keyboardhack »

This is some impressive optimization work. At this point is it still true that bots are better for performance than belts in 0.15?
Waste of bytes : P

User avatar
Optera
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2920
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Optera »

I can hardly wait to have my base currently crawling at ~20ups back up to playable 30-40ups again.
Will the changes in belt mechanic break the unintended splitter feature know as magic splitters?

kinnom
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by kinnom »

keyboardhack wrote:This is some impressive optimization work. At this point is it still true that bots are better for performance than belts in 0.15?
since when are bots better than belts?
no yes yes no yes no yes yes

Tankh
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Tankh »

whenever a belt compresses - it will stay that way forever. It means that once two items are stuck close together - away from inserters they will stay stuck close forever. This property allows us to cache the index of the last positive gap location, and update it on the fly because that index can never increase, only decrease.
I'm guessing you also tested this for items going from a slow belt to fast belt. It's probably treated like a separate belt section.

posila
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by posila »

Tankh wrote:
whenever a belt compresses - it will stay that way forever. It means that once two items are stuck close together - away from inserters they will stay stuck close forever. This property allows us to cache the index of the last positive gap location, and update it on the fly because that index can never increase, only decrease.
I'm guessing you also tested this for items going from a slow belt to fast belt. It's probably treated like a separate belt section.
That is correct, only belts of the same type are merged to the same section.

SaintFlow
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:13 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by SaintFlow »

Nice ideas for belt optimization!

I am very sad that its Feb now, first Feb FFF is out and you still didn't say a word about 0.15 planning. You guys know that people are looking forward to it quite a lot and I guess many of those looking forward expected at least some information in this fff today. I understand that stating something and then delaying might piss some people off, but not communicating at all and just plain ignoring such questions doesnt make anybody happy either. Smart Belts --> Coolbeans! No info about 0.15 --> sad.

sparr
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by sparr »

dauphin wrote:I assume one of the big caveats for the performance increase on the belts is that, in order to render, you still have to calculate the absolute position of each item on the belt?
you don't have to separately calculate each one. you calculate the first one, then just increment it in the appropriate direction for the distance to the next item, with some logic to handle corners.

Zeblote
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 973
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:55 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Zeblote »

There's a bug in your first gif :D

Image

Xeanoa
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Xeanoa »

The first release in months, and it fixes what, 3 of the dozens of reported bugs?

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 8587
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Loewchen »

Tankh wrote:
whenever a belt compresses - it will stay that way forever. It means that once two items are stuck close together - away from inserters they will stay stuck close forever. This property allows us to cache the index of the last positive gap location, and update it on the fly because that index can never increase, only decrease.
I'm guessing you also tested this for items going from a slow belt to fast belt. It's probably treated like a separate belt section.
This got me alarmed as well...

User avatar
Sigma1
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Sigma1 »

Zeblote wrote:There's a bug in your first gif :D

Image
I noticed it too :D
she/they

Neemys
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by Neemys »

Xeanoa wrote:The first release in months, and it fixes what, 3 of the dozens of reported bugs?
Lots of bug were fixed but only in 0.15 (no ETA yet) (see here for list of resolved bug), this release exist only to address critical bug
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

User avatar
MrGrim
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by MrGrim »

SaintFlow wrote:Nice ideas for belt optimization!

I am very sad that its Feb now, first Feb FFF is out and you still didn't say a word about 0.15 planning. You guys know that people are looking forward to it quite a lot and I guess many of those looking forward expected at least some information in this fff today. I understand that stating something and then delaying might piss some people off, but not communicating at all and just plain ignoring such questions doesnt make anybody happy either. Smart Belts --> Coolbeans! No info about 0.15 --> sad.
No need for anger. Wube is following a long and grand tradition of "when it's done" release schedules, from the man who popularized the concept (John Carmack when he was at id Software) to other top tier game devs such as Blizzard and Valve. I suppose the youngsters around here haven't had time to appreciate that tradition. :)

It will be out when it's done, and it'll be better because it wasn't rushed to meet some arbitrary deadline.

aober93
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by aober93 »

news sounds cool

SaintFlow
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:13 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by SaintFlow »

MrGrim wrote:
SaintFlow wrote:Nice ideas for belt optimization!

I am very sad that its Feb now, first Feb FFF is out and you still didn't say a word about 0.15 planning. You guys know that people are looking forward to it quite a lot and I guess many of those looking forward expected at least some information in this fff today. I understand that stating something and then delaying might piss some people off, but not communicating at all and just plain ignoring such questions doesnt make anybody happy either. Smart Belts --> Coolbeans! No info about 0.15 --> sad.
No need for anger. Wube is following a long and grand tradition of "when it's done" release schedules, from the man who popularized the concept (John Carmack when he was at id Software) to other top tier game devs such as Blizzard and Valve. I suppose the youngsters around here haven't had time to appreciate that tradition. :)

It will be out when it's done, and it'll be better because it wasn't rushed to meet some arbitrary deadline.
Well, I suppose you don't refer to me as a youngster. As that would be wrong. However, yes, I know who John Carmack is. And that all studios you referred to are AAA Studios with many, many more people working on games and much bigger shareholders. Again, it is not about rushing, but about communication. The last minor update upto the bugfix today was months ago. If 0.15 is not on track for the Feb timeframe they anticipated, I am pretty sure they know by now. What's wrong in communicating that? I think people are way more relaxed the earlier they get to know such things.

User avatar
commandoby
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #176 - Belts optimization for 0.15

Post by commandoby »

Скорей бы 0.15. =)

Post Reply

Return to “News”