Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

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kel
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by kel » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:14 am

I read this and realized that i have no clue about how efficient the different operations are.
Im probably going to do some benchmarking to see how this will turn out.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by cncr04s » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:18 am

The actual rails are a bit thin as compared with the rest of the track/sleepers.
The junction points are also a bit unrealistic, like that + junction/diamond, the wheels would hit the cross rails on the way the image looks, there needs to be a gap so each side of the wheel can pass through.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Lee_newsum » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:39 am

cncr04s wrote:The actual rails are a bit thin as compared with the rest of the track/sleepers.
The junction points are also a bit unrealistic, like that + junction/diamond, the wheels would hit the cross rails on the way the image looks, there needs to be a gap so each side of the wheel can pass through.
Have a look a https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-163

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Vinnie_NL » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:26 pm

maniak1349 wrote:Is there some rough estimate on how much VRAM will be required to play with high-res textures when every single texture in the game will have a high-res version?

New rails and signals are really beautiful. The only thing - aren't rails themselves looking a little too thin? There're trains with wagons full of ore and coal running on them after all.
I remember reading 4 GB video memory somewhere. But maybe there will be a medium quality setting too for GPUs with 2 GB

This is what I could find about it right now
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-64

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by maniak1349 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Vinnie_NL wrote:But maybe there will be a medium quality setting too for GPUs with 2 GB
Well, we already have "Sprite resolution" option for that. And I believe that old graphics will remain in the game to fall back too. But who can resist the temptation to play with all that splendid new graphics?

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by posila » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:28 pm

LotA wrote:If the HD graphics only require 2GB ram, Then how about it being the base graphic, and then the current graphic would be the "low-quality" setting? ^^
I regret mentioning 2GB, now :). Anyway, based on how much VRAM we detect on startup, we will default sprite resolution option to "high" or "normal".

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Dave64738 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:25 pm

Are you planning on fixing the shadows at all?

1. They always cast to the right; there is no movement during the day;
2. They remain during the night too;
3. If you place a light to the right, the shadow remains cast to the right even at night, when it should cast to the left.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Dave64738 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:28 pm

Another minor niggle relating to the rail signals is the inventory icon versus the placed object:
- the Rail Signal icon has two lights, but three when placed into the world;
- the Chain Signal icon has three lights, and only one when placed into the world.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Loewchen » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:22 pm

Dave64738 wrote:Are you planning on fixing the shadows at all?
The planet is on a star synchronous orbit and what we consider nights are actually eclipses from the inner planets. See fixed :)

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by madpav3l » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:23 pm

Dave64738 wrote:Another minor niggle relating to the rail signals is the inventory icon versus the placed object:
- the Rail Signal icon has two lights, but three when placed into the world;
- the Chain Signal icon has three lights, and only one when placed into the world.
From reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... g/dc44rw3/
V453000-Developer wrote:yes the icons should be changed ASAP, along with MANY other icons in the game <3

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by MrDoomah » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:15 pm

Losash wrote:Why is the horizontal train station 3D model turned sligtly clockwise? Or it's just a preview, and placed rougly by hand? I checked straight lines in paint, and yeah, it's turned.
It is a preview, since otherwise the chain signal in front of that station should be red.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Rseding91 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:31 am

Dave64738 wrote:Are you planning on fixing the shadows at all?

1. They always cast to the right; there is no movement during the day;
2. They remain during the night too;
3. If you place a light to the right, the shadow remains cast to the right even at night, when it should cast to the left.
No, to explain why would take more time than I want since you asking this question indicates you don't know how rendering with sprites actually works and why that could never work without a massive performance drain.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by posila » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:21 am

MrDoomah wrote:It is a preview, since otherwise the chain signal in front of that station should be red.
Or you just found bug in 0.15 ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by drmason13 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:00 am

No, to explain why would take more time than I want since you asking this question indicates you don't know how rendering with sprites actually works and why that could never work without a massive performance drain.
Presumably the shadows dropped from wires and such are static in the same way. Unless dropping shadows onto the train track itself is awkward and looks terrible.

Either way... Something to look forward to in the ultra high graphics settings: Completely realistic, time accurate shadows for all entities ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by V453000 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:15 am

MrDoomah wrote:
Losash wrote:Why is the horizontal train station 3D model turned sligtly clockwise? Or it's just a preview, and placed rougly by hand? I checked straight lines in paint, and yeah, it's turned.
It is a preview, since otherwise the chain signal in front of that station should be red.
FINALLY someone noticed :D

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Optera » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:36 pm

High res graphics sure are nice.
I never noticed chain signals have metal plates between ties before.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by ske » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:13 pm

posila wrote:
ske wrote:I'm asking this because in a nonlinear colorspace (like sRGB with its gamma scaling) you cannot simply add two light intensities by adding numbers. In linear RGB you can do that, though.
Factorio rendering is not gamma correct, but nobody seems to mind.
Be careful, it's like with kerning. Once you see it, you cannot unsee it.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by ske » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:23 pm

Rseding91 wrote:
Dave64738 wrote:Are you planning on fixing the shadows at all?

1. They always cast to the right; there is no movement during the day;
2. They remain during the night too;
3. If you place a light to the right, the shadow remains cast to the right even at night, when it should cast to the left.
No, to explain why would take more time than I want since you asking this question indicates you don't know how rendering with sprites actually works and why that could never work without a massive performance drain.
Nice use of rhetoric there.

Of course it would never work... not with those 3D-models rendered using that one light source and postprocessing applied to that one rendering. You'd have to rerender the 3D models for each angle and programmatically apply appropriate postprocessing for the whole range of angles. That would mean rendering the 3D-models in-game... nobody could do that!

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Dave64738 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:03 pm

Rseding91 wrote:
Dave64738 wrote:Are you planning on fixing the shadows at all?

1. They always cast to the right; there is no movement during the day;
2. They remain during the night too;
3. If you place a light to the right, the shadow remains cast to the right even at night, when it should cast to the left.
No, to explain why would take more time than I want since you asking this question indicates you don't know how rendering with sprites actually works and why that could never work without a massive performance drain.

Well I'm sorry I'm not as clever as you. Clearly I'm too stupid to ask reasonable questions here.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Mengmoshu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:04 am

He only said he doesn't want to take the time to educate you about how sprite rendering works. I also think that it would take a lot of time to bring you up to speed enough for you to understand, and I'm also not interested in taking that time.

As for the guy talking about rendering the game objects in real time, have you ever played a 3D rendered game with the kind of complexity Factorio allows?

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